| 00:07:07 | BZFlag | hey, chris is here. ;-) |
| 00:07:46 | Chestal | he was |
| 00:07:47 | BZFlag | oh, he left. well that's what I get for lagging. reading back... |
| 00:09:23 | Chestal | is co cvs |
| 00:10:04 | MrApathyCream | hey chestal, do you have the flu? <Flags on ducati?> |
| 00:10:55 | Chestal | flags? are you sure? |
| 00:10:59 | Chestal | I thought I switched them off |
| 00:11:10 | Chestal | nbut you can do so yourself, you kniw the password, don't you? |
| 00:11:40 | jacques | what does black hatted mean? |
| 00:12:19 | Chestal | jacques: the pause / not-repsonding-spheres |
| 00:12:25 | Chestal | at least I guess os |
| 00:13:26 | jacques | ah ok, I have seen those |
| 00:13:38 | MrApathyCream | Chestal: no pass, hmmm didn't check today.... maybe no flags then, but yesterday... :) |
| 00:13:48 | MrApathyCream | hey crs checked in stuff, cool |
| 00:14:00 | Chestal | MrApathyCream: I always start the server with flags and disable them manually afterwards |
| 00:15:05 | jacques | does the server do much cheat-prevention? |
| 00:15:30 | Chestal | jacques: virtually none |
| 00:15:41 | jacques | what calculates hits and collisions? server or client? |
| 00:15:45 | Chestal | jacques: it's very easy to cheat with bz |
| 00:15:48 | MrApathyCream | hey when you do cvs get, does it remove local files that got removed in cvs? |
| 00:15:49 | Chestal | jacques: client |
| 00:15:59 | jacques | Chestal: ah, almost trivial then :-\ |
| 00:16:19 | Chestal | jacques: yes, a simple return false; at the right position will make you invulnerable |
| 00:16:26 | jacques | heh I remember netrek |
| 00:16:35 | Chestal | jacques: we're goign to try to solve this problem on the social level |
| 00:16:38 | jacques | they had to go to digitally signed binary clients |
| 00:16:59 | MrApathyCream | social is the only solution really |
| 00:17:14 | jacques | Chestal: yeah, if one has enough friends, one can only play with known non-cheaters |
| 00:17:25 | jacques | but that's not always possible |
| 00:17:37 | Chestal | we plan on addign a kharma system |
| 00:17:41 | MrApathyCream | bz is a small community... you know who the good guys are |
| 00:17:49 | jacques | true |
| 00:17:56 | Chestal | there is very little hceating on ducati righ tnow, other servers might be worse |
| 00:18:15 | Chestal | not everythign which looks like it is cheatign, some people just have betworking problems |
| 00:18:23 | jacques | and a ton of effort could be expended trying to stop cheating technologically - effort which could be used on other features |
| 00:18:36 | Chestal | hmmph, I can't try the 1.8 because my textures are broken |
| 00:18:53 | jacques | Chestal: yeah, I am somewhat familiar with that from other (PC) online games |
| 00:19:06 | jacques | PC == windoze |
| 00:19:09 | MrApathyCream | can't you turn them off? <solid colors? |
| 00:19:30 | Chestal | mrapathycream: can't with 1.8 now, and I can't even see the fonts |
| 00:19:36 | Chestal | same probem with my DRI since upgrade |
| 00:19:50 | MrApathyCream | ug |
| 00:20:06 | MrApathyCream | download complete, will try win build |
| 00:20:10 | BZFlag | cvs deletes locale old files if you use -d |
| 00:20:12 | Chestal | I wonde rif I can disable dri withotu restarting X? |
| 00:20:14 | jacques | why are the fonts in the message window really pixellated while the fonts on the 3d display are perfectly smooth? |
| 00:20:31 | BZFlag | different font. |
| 00:20:54 | jacques | BZFlag: is that configurable? |
| 00:21:04 | Chestal | 1.8 compiled fine for me, only got duplicate definitins of math constants |
| 00:21:34 | MrApathyCream | Does this code have any network changes? or all client... |
| 00:21:51 | jacques | there's a 1.8? |
| 00:22:06 | Chestal | jacques: do you have any knowledge of C++? we're just startign to work on version 1.8, maybe you'll like to join in? |
| 00:22:24 | Chestal | jacques: 1.8 is new CVS branch |
| 00:23:13 | MrApathyCream | BZFlag: hmmm cvs get -d -v HEAD bzflag // doesn't work -d something? |
| 00:23:47 | jacques | Chestal: I am interested in helping, but I haven't dont C++ since 1988 :-\ It's changed quite a bit since then, |
| 00:24:05 | jacques | Chestal: I did C for about 10 years though |
| 00:25:41 | Chestal | jacques: ah, well, just have a look at the source when you find soem time. bzflag doesn't make too intense use of C++ features |
| 00:26:08 | Chestal | beta testers of 1.8 are also very welcome, but we'll first have to work on it of course |
| 00:27:18 | jacques | cool, I'll look at the source |
| 00:28:26 | jacques | I also enjoy beta testing things |
| 00:29:45 | MrApathyCream | hmmm.. http://sourceforge.net/projects/bzflag seems down |
| 00:30:10 | jacques | back in the day, I did a lot of 3d graphics code in C, and a lot of client-server stuff too |
| 00:30:39 | Chestal | yep, sf is broken |
| 00:30:52 | Chestal | maybe because of the php vulnerability |
| 00:30:56 | jacques | sourceforge has been down a lot recently |
| 00:31:13 | Chestal | cvs access works fine, though |
| 00:33:02 | BZFlag | jacques: not configurable at present |
| 00:33:37 | BZFlag | MrApathyCream: cvs up -PdA should work to get to head. |
| 00:33:57 | BZFlag | MrApathyCream: where did you get the other command line? |
| 00:34:23 | MrApathyCream | dunno always did cvs get -v HEAD bzflag |
| 00:34:24 | iLL_Away | hey hey hey |
| 00:34:38 | iLL_Away | oooo |
| 00:34:49 | iLL_Away | 1.8 cvs ? |
| 00:34:51 | iLL_Away | oooooooo |
| 00:34:53 | iLL_Away | ooooooooooooooo |
| 00:34:54 | iLL_Away | heh |
| 00:34:55 | jacques | BZFlag: ah well. |
| 00:34:57 | BZFlag | MrApathyCream: -A and -r HEAD are similar. -r HEAD will have commit trouble though. -A is better. |
| 00:35:12 | MrApathyCream | ok, hmmm massive compile errors with bzfs.cxx |
| 00:35:21 | MrApathyCream | hm do i have it modified |
| 00:36:59 | iLL_Away | hmm |
| 00:37:23 | iLL_Away | sourceforge is b0rked |
| 00:39:20 | MrApathyCream | hmmm seems like doesn't know cerr iostream is included... hm |
| 00:39:48 | Chestal | namespace std issues |
| 00:41:10 | MrApathyCream | yeah, added using namespace std; |
| 00:41:20 | MrApathyCream | fixed that but got ambiquous istream symbols. |
| 00:42:19 | Chestal | hmm, crs said it compiled on vc |
| 00:44:05 | Chestal | well, good n8 everyone |
| 00:47:27 | BZFlag | CodeWeaver: heya. |
| 00:47:44 | BZFlag | new bz stuff in cvs. now's your chance to join in. ;-) |
| 00:53:08 | CodeWeaver | What's new? |
| 00:53:26 | iLLf8d | BZFlag: how do we get at it? |
| 00:53:32 | iLLf8d | nothing i'm trying is working |
| 00:54:06 | jacques | how smart are the bzflag bots? |
| 01:04:23 | jacques | what format is used for the textures? |
| 01:05:45 | | jacques: excuse me? |
| 01:05:45 | jacques | ibot: test |
| 01:06:39 | BZFlag | iLLf8d: what are you trying? |
| 01:07:20 | BZFlag | http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=3248 |
| 01:07:31 | BZFlag | jacques: dumb, and about to die. |
| 01:08:01 | BZFlag | jacques: .rgb at present. they should move to .png before 1.8 is released. |
| 01:08:36 | jacques | BZFlag: about to die? |
| 01:08:59 | BZFlag | the bots will be recoded in 1.8 as separate game clients. |
| 01:09:38 | CodeWeaver | Hey, I'm doing vehicle AI at work... perhaps I can pass some code under the table :) |
| 01:10:09 | jacques | BZFlag: ah, I like that! |
| 01:14:10 | MrApathyCream | crs said this compiles with VC? bzcs.cxx not for me |
| 01:14:34 | BZFlag | CodeWeaver: I'd like to see it. |
| 01:14:41 | BZFlag | MrApathyCream: yes, that's what he said. |
| 01:46:02 | jacques | what is the point of PZ? |
| 01:59:45 | BZFlag | PZ? |
| 02:00:18 | vogon_jeltz | phantom zone |
| 02:00:31 | BZFlag | ah. I like it. ;-) |
| 02:00:44 | BZFlag | sit behind a teleporter and snipe. |
| 02:16:45 | jacques | that's evil :-D |
| 02:17:12 | jacques | I guess it would also be good for travelling across the map without getting hit |
| 05:17:22 | captain_proton | hi MrApathyCream |
| 05:20:28 | MrApathyCream | hey |
| 05:21:00 | captain_proton | tried out crs' code yet? |
| 05:21:28 | MrApathyCream | not yet had compile errors in bzfs.cxx |
| 05:21:37 | MrApathyCream | be back in second |
| 05:30:30 | jacques | anyone here play with a joystick? |
| 05:30:46 | jacques | what's the recommended control method? |
| 05:42:28 | MrApathyCream | 1.8 builds for everyone else? |
| 05:42:36 | MrApathyCream | RobotPlayer.h missing for instance |
| 06:05:27 | BZFlag | MrApathyCream: cvs up -PdA? |
| 06:05:36 | BZFlag | I just nuked the robot code. |
| 06:09:47 | jacques | poor bots |
| 06:10:25 | crs23 | any thoughts on future robot code? |
| 06:12:42 | jacques | is there an API for the bots? |
| 06:12:54 | jacques | or does that need to be worked out? |
| 06:13:34 | jacques | or, if they are going to be clients, I guess they just see what a regular client would see |
| 06:13:37 | crs23 | i know some people had some ideas but nothing is designed AFAIK |
| 06:13:56 | jacques | so their interface to the server would just be the bzflag protocol |
| 06:14:14 | crs23 | yes. the interesting problem is a script language to control them. |
| 06:14:28 | MrApathyCream | crs23: you say win32 builds... I get bunches of probs |
| 06:15:23 | crs23 | like what? |
| 06:15:45 | MrApathyCream | bzfs.cxx-- cerr not defined because using namespace std; not specified... but can't because of bzfio.h |
| 06:15:59 | MrApathyCream | RobotPlayer.h doesn't exist |
| 06:16:33 | MrApathyCream | also: warning: two VERSION defines in bzfs.dsp and bzflag.dsp |
| 06:16:48 | crs23 | what the? give me a sec to check. |
| 06:19:07 | crs23 | i just got a clean install and i'm checking it now. i see that RobotPlayer.h is missing. hang on. |
| 06:19:25 | BZFlag | crs I'm nuking the robot stuff. |
| 06:20:31 | crs23 | oh, well there you go. the win32 projects weren't updated. |
| 06:20:50 | MrApathyCream | hmmm... keep getting bounced from irc.. missed last few |
| 06:21:30 | crs23 | looks like bzfs isn't compiling... |
| 06:21:44 | MrApathyCream | need to add |
| 06:21:48 | MrApathyCream | using namespace std; |
| 06:21:58 | MrApathyCream | unfortunately platformfactory.h includes bzfio.h |
| 06:22:09 | MrApathyCream | which does typedef std:istream istream; |
| 06:22:12 | MrApathyCream | which conflicts |
| 06:22:17 | BZFlag | crs23: I missed a few, just commited the rest. |
| 06:24:49 | MrApathyCream | i'm doing a complete (clean) co now... will see |
| 06:25:04 | crs23 | let's just add the std:: where necessary. oh hey! i added std:: all over the place before. musta forgot to check those changes in. |
| 06:26:04 | crs23 | yeah. that's what happened. just a sec and i'll try to merge my changes in. |
| 06:27:13 | vogon_jeltz | is away: afk |
| 06:37:19 | crs23 | MrApathyCream: i checked in a fixed bzfs.cxx just now. try that. |
| 06:38:26 | BZFlag | crs23: argh... system header should always go first, no? |
| 06:38:46 | BZFlag | lots of PI warnings here. |
| 06:38:48 | BZFlag | ;-) |
| 06:40:38 | crs23 | what's a PI warning? and i don't agree system headers go first. |
| 06:43:16 | captain_proton | wow...crs twice in one day? |
| 06:44:25 | captain_proton | is away: i'm off to do my homework, the wonderful homework of oz |
| 06:45:48 | crs23 | i submitted fixes for the VERSION redefines in the project files. looks like they wouldn't have caused problems anyway. |
| 06:47:26 | BZFlag | globals.h attempts t redefine M_PI which is defined in math.h on many systems. math.h gets included later and generates the warning. |
| 06:47:58 | BZFlag | sorry common.h |
| 06:50:19 | crs23 | oh, i didn't hit that problem. too bad math.h doesn't do it's own #ifdef. we could move the #defines back into the macintosh and _WIN32 sections. |
| 06:51:04 | crs23 | that's where they were in 1.7. i moved them outside to append the `f' for float type on all platforms. |
| 06:51:16 | BZFlag | I'd rather move the system includes first. experience has shown that to be the safer thing to do for portability. |
| 06:53:05 | crs23 | i moved them afterwards to expose implicit dependencies on symbols in the standard libraries. while i maintain that that's a good idea, i'm not opposed to put system includes first. |
| 06:53:56 | BZFlag | ok. |
| 06:54:22 | BZFlag | you have a few case statements on enums without a default: ok if I add them? |
| 06:54:35 | BZFlag | also get's a gcc warning here. |
| 06:55:48 | crs23 | does gcc emit a warning even if all enumerants are handled? |
| 06:56:04 | BZFlag | no. |
| 06:56:25 | BZFlag | CommandsSearch.cxx: In method `void CommandsSearch::onFrame()': |
| 06:56:26 | BZFlag | CommandsSearch.cxx:308: warning: enumeration value `SendRequest' not handled in switch |
| 06:56:26 | BZFlag | CommandsSearch.cxx:308: warning: enumeration value `WaitForReply' not handled in switch |
| 06:56:26 | crs23 | oh. which ones did i miss? and, sure, add the defaults. |
| 06:56:38 | BZFlag | that's an example. |
| 06:57:05 | crs23 | ah. that one in particular should assert in the default case. |
| 06:58:11 | crs23 | without seeing the others i couldn't be sure, but asserting is probably right in most cases. some may want to do nothing though. |
| 06:59:51 | BZFlag | a real assert or a warning? want me to find them and paste them all here and you can add the asserts? ;-) |
| 07:00:28 | crs23 | a real assert. in that example, the other cases should never occur. |
| 07:00:39 | crs23 | which g++ version are you using? |
| 07:01:13 | BZFlag | gcc version 2.95.4 (Debian prerelease) |
| 07:02:20 | crs23 | i've got 2.96. i get no warnings. funny they should take a step backward like that. |
| 07:02:37 | BZFlag | I've added -Werror and -Wall |
| 07:02:55 | BZFlag | hmm.. -Wall was there in config-linux. I added -Werror |
| 07:03:01 | jacques | crs23: you using redhat? |
| 07:03:08 | crs23 | -Werror just makes warnings errors, right? |
| 07:03:15 | crs23 | i've got mandrake. |
| 07:04:44 | crs23 | tim, you can collect the warnings and email them to me. i'll fix 'em. |
| 07:05:49 | crs23 | MrApathyCream: you still there? how goes the win32 build? |
| 07:06:38 | BZFlag | crs23: ok, if you like. ;-) |
| 07:08:08 | BZFlag | crs23: even the M_PI ones? |
| 07:08:43 | crs23 | you mean flipping around the system includes? *sigh* yeah i'll do those too. tomorrow. |
| 07:08:57 | BZFlag | I still think it's a Good Thing to include system headers first. I understand the desire to identify system dependancies, but it makes porting tougher. |
| 07:09:13 | BZFlag | I cam do the flips if you like. |
| 07:09:38 | crs23 | thanks. flipping should solve the M_PI problems without changing common.h |
| 07:10:14 | BZFlag | many files include both common.h and global.h but global.h include common.h |
| 07:11:32 | crs23 | i don't mind redundant includes like that. chasing down every redundant include is a waste of time since they'll creep back in. |
| 07:11:49 | crs23 | it's not like bzflag takes very long to compile. :-) |
| 07:12:24 | BZFlag | heh. |
| 07:12:46 | BZFlag | well then we can just add math.h in globals.h before the redefines, no? |
| 07:13:58 | crs23 | sure! |
| 07:14:38 | BZFlag | ok. that's easy. we'll cross the system header issue next time it pops up. |
| 07:15:21 | crs23 | fyi, i was getting a warning from gcc due to a small bug in the standard c++ library. a signed/unsigned compare. |
| 07:15:46 | BZFlag | er.. common.h. addins. |
| 07:15:56 | BZFlag | adding I mean. sheesh. |
| 07:16:09 | crs23 | heh. |
| 07:16:37 | crs23 | the warning is in sstream, line 171, method stringbuf::sync(). |
| 07:16:59 | crs23 | if you run into it you'll have to turn off -Werror or edit your system header file. |
| 07:18:05 | BZFlag | ok, I'll watch for it. |
| 07:18:28 | BZFlag | I only turn on -Werror on "make DEBUG=1" |
| 07:19:13 | crs23 | okay, it's late so i'll sign off. all fix the missing defaults when i get your mail. |
| 07:19:29 | BZFlag | ok. one more... |
| 07:19:53 | BZFlag | Makedepend could be .depend which is fairly standard. k? |
| 07:20:29 | crs23 | i didn't know that. sure, make it so. should be just one line in each config file that specifies it. |
| 07:20:41 | BZFlag | yep. will do. |
| 07:21:07 | crs23 | ok. bye! |
| 07:21:39 | BZFlag | later, great work! |
| 07:21:58 | crs23 | thanks. |
| 07:42:02 | captain_proton | is back (gone 00:57:37) |
| 08:56:43 | BZFlag | puts up a 1.8 server for kicks. |
| 08:57:45 | captain_proton | BZFlag: i put up one on decks |
| 08:57:48 | captain_proton | its slick |
| 08:57:54 | captain_proton | not public tho |
| 08:58:24 | BZFlag | I just converted one.bzflag.org over to 1.8 so that I can test the server list under 1.8 |
| 08:58:25 | fontenot | i thought there wasn't much difference between 1.7e4 and 1.8cvs right now? |
| 08:58:32 | BZFlag | not yet, no. |
| 08:58:39 | captain_proton | it looks good though |
| 08:58:46 | captain_proton | starts upgrading lame |
| 08:58:51 | BZFlag | but I'm making sure the list server keeps working while I make changes |
| 08:59:07 | captain_proton | BZFlag: list server didn't seem to work right =/ |
| 09:00:05 | BZFlag | works fine. it won't show 1.7 server to 1.8 clients and vis/versa |
| 09:01:00 | captain_proton | hmm ok =) |
| 09:01:15 | captain_proton | care to play on one? |
| 09:01:28 | BZFlag | for a bit, sure. |
| 09:01:57 | BZFlag | updates the copyright dates and spams the world. |
| 10:32:36 | BZFlag | heh, fun fun. I made a rear view mirror (well window, it's not reversed, though that should be possible too.) |
| 14:29:34 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 08:02:21) |
| 17:00:38 | captain_proton | hey tim |
| 17:05:04 | BZFlag | hey. had fun with the new code last night. |
| 17:05:15 | captain_proton | yep |
| 17:05:19 | captain_proton | 1.8 is going to be a blast |
| 17:05:21 | BZFlag | made a rear view window. ;-) |
| 17:05:34 | captain_proton | you said it isn't reversed though |
| 17:05:39 | captain_proton | thats cool however =) |
| 17:06:18 | BZFlag | yeah, could not figure a way to reverse it on horz without also reversing vert. |
| 17:06:26 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 17:06:43 | captain_proton | what would happen if you defined the width to be negative? |
| 17:07:30 | captain_proton | probably wouldn't work... |
| 17:07:35 | captain_proton | but its a thought |
| 17:09:53 | BZFlag | tried that. ;-) the window disappeared. |
| 17:11:35 | captain_proton | heh |
| 17:11:46 | captain_proton | hey do you know octave/matlab? |
| 17:12:08 | captain_proton | nevermind =) |
| 17:12:10 | captain_proton | figured it out |
| 17:12:46 | Chestal | I wish crs were here. I am searchig for an easy way to disable texture rendering with 1.8 |
| 17:12:54 | Chestal | as it is, it's unusably slow for me |
| 17:20:15 | captain_proton | perhaps you should get a graphics card? |
| 17:23:24 | Chestal | I have one |
| 17:23:43 | Chestal | I jsut want to test 1.8 for now, cidablign textures just doesn't work yet |
| 17:26:28 | BZFlag | http://mysak.umbr.cas.cz/~husakm/Public/StereoOpenGL/StereoscopicOpenGLTutorial.htm |
| 17:26:31 | BZFlag | need that. |
| 17:27:06 | BZFlag | ;-) interlaced stereo would be very cool. |
| 17:29:12 | captain_proton | maybe if you had a double-screen HMD.... |
| 17:31:42 | BZFlag | I've got an immersive headset, and it wants an interlaced image. |
| 17:33:53 | captain_proton | heh |
| 17:40:04 | captain_proton | you have too many toys |
| 17:42:37 | BZFlag | heh, one can never have too many toys. I do suffer from no enough time though. ;-) |
| 17:42:46 | BZFlag | er not enough time. |
| 17:49:43 | captain_proton | 1 udp for everything? we're for sure doing our own guaranteed delivery system? |
| 17:56:00 | Chestal | hmm, I don't like this leading underscore style |
| 17:56:13 | Chestal | AFAIK it's ok as long as the first letter is not capital, but still |
| 18:01:03 | vogon_jeltz | is away: shower |
| 18:17:24 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 00:16:20) |
| 18:42:51 | Chestal | ah,hi crs23 |
| 18:42:54 | Chestal | hmm |
| 18:44:21 | BZFlag | captain_proton: yes. |
| 18:44:52 | BZFlag | gee, guess crs did not want to chat after all. |
| 18:45:48 | Chestal | I wonder if we should change the basic architecture of bzfs to using 2 threads |
| 18:46:00 | Chestal | one doing thegame logic and one for low-level-comunication only |
| 18:46:48 | BZFlag | with one handle, the select() will be faster than it is now. |
| 18:47:47 | BZFlag | SubSpace handles 200+ users using a similar technique, and there is more game logic on the server too. |
| 18:48:41 | Chestal | jsut though it would make some things about the net code easier |
| 18:49:26 | Chestal | when we do our own reliable UDP layer, soem things normall yodne by TCP must be done manually, and the TCP protocol currently is done in antoehr thread (well, in the kernel) |
| 18:50:24 | Chestal | if we stay single-threaded using select I guess it might be a good idea to introduce an event queue |
| 18:50:39 | Chestal | a priority queue sorted by time of event |
| 18:50:57 | Chestal | so it will be easy to set the max. wait time for select |
| 18:51:08 | Chestal | we will have much more events than we will have now I guess |
| 18:52:54 | BZFlag | we will handle intelligently discarding packets and throttling. |
| 18:53:17 | BZFlag | as well as reordering "important" packets. |
| 18:53:59 | BZFlag | there will need to be a packet queue for each player, though I will likely only keep reliable packets in the queue. |
| 18:54:47 | Chestal | how about putting several messages into one packet? we would have to use some sort of small queue for this also |
| 18:55:51 | Chestal | what kind of packets would you discard? |
| 19:09:22 | BZFlag | yes, packets will be merged, and the entire block will be timestamped. |
| 19:09:54 | BZFlag | old position and gm updates could be discarded if there is a new one there anyway. |
| 19:10:36 | BZFlag | I plan to shrink the msg sizes too, so more would fit in the new merged packets. |
| 19:11:17 | BZFlag | all this stuff will be in net, so it could be replaced later without changing the rest of the game code. |
| 19:11:25 | BZFlag | adding multicast etc. |
| 20:54:06 | jacques_gone | whats SubSpace? |
| 21:03:41 | jacques | i just did a google search but most of the links are dead |
| 22:15:00 | captain_proton | BZFlag: is there any chance of using a better-combined net library? |
| 22:43:22 | jacques | have you guys looked at gnet? |
| 23:11:44 | jacques | how much work has been done on balancing the weapons? |
| 23:12:05 | jacques | some such as the GM and laser are (to me) clearly unbalanced |
| 23:12:07 | captain_proton | balancing weapons has always been a big consideration when making new flags... |
| 23:12:18 | captain_proton | i'm not sure how to even it up more |
| 23:12:38 | captain_proton | its pretty much up to the server ops to make sure if they have 1 gm to have about 3 stealth |
| 23:12:58 | jacques | I am a total newbie (only been playing two days) but when I get the GM or laser I rack u pseveral kills before someone gets me - even on the crazy populated servers |
| 23:13:10 | captain_proton | yes thats true |
| 23:13:18 | captain_proton | i'm not to big on flags anymore anyhow =) |
| 23:13:30 | captain_proton | though i'm not going to do a chestal and give up jumping |
| 23:13:42 | jacques | yeah I would play on non-flag non-jumping servers if I cold find any populated |
| 23:13:56 | jacques | well I am still not set on jumping |
| 23:14:01 | jacques | I could go either way |
| 23:14:27 | jacques | it definitely add a new dimension (:-)) to the game |
| 23:14:31 | captain_proton | heh |
| 23:14:48 | captain_proton | i like it because if you can make someone jump, you've got them |
| 23:14:49 | captain_proton | usually |
| 23:14:52 | jacques | maybe I just need to learn how to evade GM better |
| 23:15:16 | jacques | but the laser i scary - last night there were ppl shooting the laser and it was bouncing about 20 times all over the map |
| 23:15:30 | jacques | they could kill several ppl from the other side of the map |
| 23:15:39 | captain_proton | yeah - we're thinking of reducing the range to about 150% of a normal shot |
| 23:15:56 | jacques | even 200% would be better than what I saw |
| 23:16:14 | captain_proton | right now its 50x the distance iirc |
| 23:16:14 | jacques | it was making spirograph patterns on the map |
| 23:16:25 | jacques | 50x ?? wow |
| 23:17:06 | captain_proton | it'd be nice if the only real benefit of the laser was its instant shot - slight distance improvement perhaps |
| 23:17:24 | captain_proton | also the laser shouldn't ricochet on surfaces where shots do imo |
| 23:18:12 | jacques | agreed |
| 23:18:22 | jacques | maybe only off of teleporters |
| 23:18:40 | jacques | or does it go through teleporters? |
| 23:19:09 | jacques | the instant shot is a bit advantage |
| 23:19:12 | jacques | big |
| 23:21:32 | jacques | there should be fog generators that diffuse the laser beam |
| 23:21:55 | jacques | the newer 3d cards should be able to render fog and weather effects |
| 23:22:29 | jacques | but I understand the need to support software rendering and slower cards |
| 23:22:51 | jacques | otherwise there would be a different minimum hardware spec for different features |
| 23:25:03 | jacques | I wonder if anybody is working on gratuitous eye candy for bzflag |
| 23:25:34 | captain_proton | weather effects are one of my projects for 1.8 |
| 23:25:49 | jacques | COOL |
| 23:26:01 | captain_proton | i'll probably also create an alternative explosion that uses a particle system |
| 23:26:09 | jacques | :-) :-) |
| 23:26:20 | captain_proton | so yes - gratuitous eye candy is good |
| 23:26:27 | jacques | if you do a generalized particle engine... |
| 23:26:40 | jacques | it could have many uses in bzflag |
| 23:26:43 | captain_proton | yes |
| 23:26:54 | captain_proton | explosions & weather effects are the 2 i've thought of so far |
| 23:27:00 | jacques | dust trails, smoke, fog (maybe) |
| 23:27:14 | captain_proton | fog is better done via the normal fog stuff |
| 23:27:22 | jacques | normal fog stuff? |
| 23:27:27 | jacques | it's already in there? |
| 23:27:31 | captain_proton | yeah |
| 23:27:45 | captain_proton | opengl has a basic fog routine, and there's a more advanced one in an NV_ extension |
| 23:27:47 | jacques | where is fog used in the game? |
| 23:27:55 | captain_proton | not in the game - in opengl |
| 23:28:02 | jacques | oh, you meant it's in opengl |
| 23:28:06 | captain_proton | yes |
| 23:28:08 | jacques | I understand - and good point |
| 23:28:32 | jacques | i notice nobody uses mines |
| 23:28:41 | jacques | what about morrors? |
| 23:28:44 | jacques | mirrors |
| 23:28:49 | jacques | those would be fun |
| 23:30:29 | captain_proton | mirrors could be cool |
| 23:31:41 | captain_proton | it'd be good to add a little 'distortion' to them if possible - make it so if you're careful, you can tell its a mirror - if you're in a hurry however, you die =) |
| 23:31:58 | jacques | HEH - I was just thinking about funhouse mirrors |
| 23:32:12 | iLLf8d | hey you guys gonna add a feature to set team queries (ie first person who starts ctf team has to be polled to ask if a player can join his team) |
| 23:32:17 | iLLf8d | ? |
| 23:32:38 | iLLf8d | seems that ctf lately has sucked cause everyone comes and goes and next thing you know its 4 players to 2 |
| 23:32:39 | captain_proton | don't know - probably should ask tim on that one |
| 23:32:43 | jacques | that's too practical - we're discussing grtuitouse eye candy |
| 23:32:48 | jacques | :-d |
| 23:32:50 | jacques | :-D |
| 23:33:14 | iLLf8d | or mandatory load ballancing |
| 23:33:31 | iLLf8d | ie 3 players to 4 server has one player paused for a 5 min timeout |
| 23:33:36 | jacques | maybe the super-weapons should require ammo - or at least have a max number of shots |
| 23:33:38 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: you do realize that mirrors aren't a good idea unless you have some sort of map compiler to validate that they're not parallel, right? |
| 23:33:38 | iLLf8d | and rotates players |
| 23:34:01 | jacques | vogon_jeltz: interesting |
| 23:34:06 | iLLf8d | all I know is this game NEEDS BLOOD BODIES AND SCREAMS! |
| 23:34:13 | jacques | yeah! |
| 23:34:25 | jacques | I liked the way battlezone (PC) did it |
| 23:34:27 | iLLf8d | nothing like having a head fly past the screen |
| 23:34:41 | iLLf8d | or blood spurt across recticle |
| 23:34:45 | iLLf8d | then run down and off display |
| 23:34:46 | iLLf8d | =)| |
| 23:34:47 | jacques | pilots could eject |
| 23:35:00 | jacques | and you could kill them as they floated to the ground |
| 23:35:07 | jacques | or just run them over :-D |
| 23:36:31 | jacques | vogon_jeltz: I wonder if it would be possible to just have a mirror not reflect othre mirrors? |
| 23:36:40 | vogon_jeltz | *shrug* |
| 23:36:44 | vogon_jeltz | I guess that's possible |
| 23:36:53 | jacques | not very realistic though |
| 23:37:27 | vogon_jeltz | it'd also require a more complicated culling algorithm |
| 23:37:32 | jacques | I remember a post I made to th xtank newsgroup in like 1990 |
| 23:37:56 | jacques | it was an april fool's post - I implied that xtank (2d top-down game) had a new version which was 3d |
| 23:38:12 | jacques | bzflag is like what I was talking about |
| 23:38:17 | captain_proton | heh |
| 23:41:32 | jacques | I'm looking for that post on google but now I cant find it :-\ |
| 23:44:37 | jacques | I think google is not nearly complete |
| 23:45:37 | captain_proton | google should have all of usenet for the last 20 years =/ |
| 23:46:48 | jacques | they say they do but I cant find my post |
| 23:46:56 | jacques | I know I posted it |
| 23:52:19 | jacques | ok now I know they are not complete |
| 23:52:48 | jacques | they seem to be missing almost all of my rec.games.mud.lp posts from 1989-1991 |
| 23:53:12 | jacques | if they say they are complete, thay are lying |