irclog2html for #byumug on 20050126

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16:33.27drewbonoGood morning!
16:34.19drewbonoHow's it going?
16:34.23drewbonoWhat's new in wps' life?
16:35.52wpseh, not much new
16:37.05wpsloaded down with work and school
16:49.45drewbonoDitto that.
16:50.05drewbonoI'm taking 18 hrs at school, trying to run the group as well as work.
16:51.55drewbonoOh, and I still have to keep Shiloh happy. :-)
16:52.00drewbonoThat's a priority.
16:52.27wpsyes, that's very important
16:52.34wpsI can't believe that you are taking 18 hours
16:52.40wpshow many hours to you work a week?
16:54.39drewbonoanywhere from 15-30 hours at one job
16:54.43drewbonoand 10-15 at the other.
16:54.51drewbonoIt's still not as much as you though. :-)
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18:32.36drewbonoHey, we have a new friend.
18:32.39drewbonoWelcome, mrclary.
18:32.50wpshowdy, friend
18:32.52mrclarythank you; glad to be here
18:33.47wpsjbot, mrclary is glad to be here
18:33.48jbotwps: okay
18:34.10wpsmrclary: you a student?
18:34.59mrclaryyes, a grad student at the University of Maryland College Park.  I came from UVSC, and am a member of mac users group at BYU
18:35.31wpsah, so you attending UVSC in the past and are in Maryland presently?
18:36.04mrclaryyes.  I graduated last spring with a BS.
18:36.06feutetejsdcool!!! we're crossing state lines!
18:36.35wpsI had someone email me from another state the other day asking for more details about an article that I published on our site
18:36.45mrclaryThere are several people from BYU here at Maryland
18:39.06jbotsomebody said feutetejsd was a grammar-intolerant pyromaniac
18:39.28feutetejsdyou got that right, jbot!!!!!
18:39.37feutetejsdjbot rules
18:39.38jbotrules are a requirement for having exceptions
18:39.51feutetejsdyeah, that's not exactly what I meant by that, but....whatever
18:39.54wpsha ha ha
18:40.01feutetejsdoh man...those were the days
18:40.08wpspost -> past
18:41.02wpsso, drewbono, any thoughts of streaming video of Fridays meeting :) :) :)
18:41.52drewbonoNot streaming...
18:41.56drewbonoBut it will be available later.
18:42.08wpsyou are at least recording it then?
18:42.09drewbonoI'm waiting on Danny to get me access to the new server.
18:42.14drewbonoI will be.
18:42.25wpswhen do you imagine us moving to the new server?
18:42.33wpsbefore longhorn?
18:42.33drewbonoIt'll be sooner than later.
18:42.44drewbonoShawn is taking a new job, so we'll have to move off of his server ASAP.
18:42.48drewbonoVery funny...
18:42.59wps~fish wps' poor humor
18:43.01jbotACTION slaps wps' poor humor around with a large trout
18:43.08wpsthanks, jbot
18:43.49feutetejsdheh heh....longhorn
18:44.16wpscode name for "long time"
18:45.36wpsanother pixel went out on my PB last week :(
18:45.42wpsthat makes two now
18:45.50wpsnot bad for a three year old laptop though
18:46.42wpsI had a thought yesterday that made me hopeful for the new PBs
18:48.12wpsI was looking at a friend's new iBook and was noticing how the iBooks have changed recently and considering that in conjunction with how they have been upgraded on the inside... I thought how interesting it is at how much they seem to be becoming powerbooks... both internally and externally
18:48.21wpsand it caused me to think...
18:48.46wpsI wonder if they are doing that on purpose... preparing them to take the place of the powerbook... when it changes
18:49.01wps*when* :)
18:49.32wpsthese are, however, just musing of a hopeless romantic
18:50.09feutetejsdinteresting thought
18:52.21drewbonoThe ibook and powerbook are far too similar, IMO.
18:52.29drewbonoI wish the powerbooks supported higher resolutions though.
18:52.44drewbonoMy friend has a dell laptop that does 1900xwhatever.
18:52.48wpsthey are _far_ too similar
18:53.02wpsscreen resolution has always been my number one complaint with Apple laptops
18:53.28wpsyeah, my old Vaio that I had before my Powerbook in 2001 did 1600 x
18:53.58wps1900 would be too big (err small, depending on how you look at it) for a laptop, but 1600 would be really nice
18:54.05wpsI don't understand why they can't make them do that
18:54.10wpswould it really up the price that much?
18:55.09wpsif Dell and Sony can do it, why can't Apple?
18:56.33wpsI wish we could send jbot into Cupertino as a spy
18:56.43wpsdrewbono: I applied for 22 jobs at Apple :)
18:58.13drewbonoAre you serious?
18:58.31wpsI figure it wouldn't hurt
18:58.31drewbonoThat's a ton ton.
18:58.36wpsjust to see what happens
18:58.44drewbonoGood call.
18:58.48wpsI'd never live in California
18:58.59wps...the pay was really nice :)
19:05.24drewbonoIt would have to be...
19:05.30drewbonohomes are so so so expensive out there.
19:05.48drewbonothe only way I'd want to work out in CA is if I could work for Apple.
19:06.07drewbonoI think I'm going to hit the consulting gig first and get experience, then go over to Apple.
19:06.16wpsI really don't want to move though. I am trying to pay my mortgage off.
19:07.03drewbonoYou have a house?
19:07.13wpsa condominium
19:07.27drewbonoYou're a smart man.
19:07.27wpsI thought you knew where I lived
19:07.32wpsoh yeah
19:07.35wpsrent is stupid
19:07.45drewbonoI haven't been invited yet. ;-) ;-)
19:07.58wpsespecially in today's economy
19:08.32wpssure, a few cannot get qualified for a loan or make a down payment, but otherwise your dumb to pay rent
19:08.42wpsI pay less on my mortgage than most do for rest
19:09.14wpsfixed FHA at 5.5%
19:09.42feutetejsdyeah, not paying rent is good....until you want to sell your house, and can't make any money off of it
19:10.07wpsit's true that that sucks, but you haven't lost any more than rent
19:10.24feutetejsdand I've been able to paint my walls :D
19:10.49drewbonoBack when Shiloh and I were engaged, we really wanted to get into a house.
19:10.54wpsrent is money down the tubes not matter what
19:11.11drewbonobut every way we looked at it, there was no way we could make it cheaper than rent w/o living there more than 3 years.
19:11.30drewbonoThe fees, etc., for getting a mortage, paying someone to sell it, etc., are killer.
19:11.41feutetejsdMake sure to run Software Update everyone....OS X Highly critical vulnerability with system access from remote:
19:11.43wpsmy minimum monthly payment is only $580 / month
19:11.44wpsbeat that
19:11.56wpsdrewbono, that is so yesterday's news
19:12.00drewbonoIt's not the payment...
19:12.16drewbonoIt's the overall cost you have to look at.
19:12.22drewbonoWhat's yesterday's news?
19:12.29wpsthe update :)
19:12.38feutetejsdthat was me, not drewbono
19:12.43wpsoh, whoops
19:12.55wps~lart wps
19:18.35wpsis there an easy way without spending $10-$15 ? :)
19:20.48wpsI won't be doing it very often, so it isn't really worth purchasing a 'lil drag-n-drop app
19:20.55wpscan you do it with Disk Utility?
19:23.12drewbonoAsk, and ye shall receive.
19:23.14drewbono# Create the image
19:23.14drewbonohdiutil create -quiet -srcfolder /var/log/ /tmp/Log_$stamp.dmg
19:23.16drewbonoI love google.
19:23.31drewbonotaken from
19:24.23feutetejsdwoohoo!!! I figured out  a way to delete the email I've moved to my trash in from the server via POP3....
19:24.31wpsyou did?
19:25.15feutetejsdwell, it wasn't pretty, and actually didn't use at all....
19:25.45feutetejsdit turns out that (fortunately) the mailserver puts the UIDL in the headers....which I retrieve via grep and then use netcat to delete them
19:26.19feutetejsda single shell script runs the whole schmear, making use of some CLI PHP as well
19:26.50wpsdo you have it set to run automatically each time you delete an individual message?
19:27.10feutetejsdno, I'll have to run it automatically, although I imagine I could make it go with each individual delete
19:27.29feutetejsdthe way it runs now, it will just do a mass delete of the ones I've moved to the trash
19:27.52feutetejsdwhich works for me, since I only move msgs to the trash if I no longer want them (fancy that!)
19:28.45wpsit's interesting how each persons email preferences and habits are so different
19:29.04wpsfor example, drewbono hasn't deleted a single email message for the past five years or so
19:29.20wpsand I don't keep anything (in my mail client at least) for more than 30 days
19:29.36feutetejsdI'm a lot like drewbono--I have a lot of old mail hanging around
19:29.41feutetejsdmost of what I delete is spam
19:29.47feutetejsdheck....most of what I receive is spam
19:29.54wps(I save plain text versions of important messages as files in my archives)
19:30.34feutetejsdnot a bad idea....I'm just too lazy to do that, though :D
19:30.54wpsit's really simple in Mail
19:30.59feutetejsdalthough I'm not too lazy to write a bunch of scripts to delete mail from the server....what a strange man I am
19:31.03wpsjust cmd + shift + s
19:31.10wpsindeed :)
19:31.52feutetejsdperhaps I'll give that a try sometime
19:32.56mrclarycmd+k removes messages from server; I just move an entire mailbox into an archive folder, maybe once every semester.  They're real easy to open and search in Mail.
19:33.01feutetejsdmaybe sooner rather than later....I have several hundred megabytes of email, and sometimes gets really slow because of it
19:33.42feutetejsdmrclary, will cmd+k remove individual messages from the server, or messages for an entire account?
19:35.04wpsfancy that
19:35.05mrclaryI'm pretty sure it removes messages for an entire account . . . oh, wait, it just removes DELETED mail from servers, sorry; I guess I just setup my prefs to remove mail from the servers when downloaded
19:35.42wpsit just just remove all deleted messages from the server
19:35.52wpsit should just remove all deleted messages from the server
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19:38.57feutetejsdhmmmm....for some reason, I cant convince cmd+k to do anything....
19:40.12wpsare you addressing it as an individual or someone who is beneath you?
19:40.25feutetejsdthe latter
19:40.34feutetejsdI never treat messages as individuals
19:40.43feutetejsdI don't want them to think they run the place
19:44.26mrclaryok, hold on . . . i'm looking into this
19:46.00feutetejsdif I go to Mailbox->Erase Deleted Messages, I get a grayed-out option for "In selected Mailbox" but can't figure out how to make it active. If I pick a specific mailbox from the list, it deletes it locally, but not on the server
19:51.23wpsif you just put the script at the beginning of the file the code will be executed first, no?
19:52.31drewbonoYeah...why didn't I think of that?
19:52.34macnewbolddoes that work, drewbono? does it run it before the onload?
19:52.46macnewboldI thought onload was the first script it would run...
19:52.53macnewboldthen start from the top of the html
19:53.05drewbonoI just put it in with a <script> tag, right?
19:53.17drewbonomacnewbold: onLoad doesn't get activated until a page is done loading.
19:55.07wpsthe question is does javascript in the head get executed before the page has finished loading
19:55.10wpsI don't know
19:56.01feutetejsdI believe it does, wps....I've put some JS into the head, i.e. to pop up an alert or redirect to another page, and I get the pop-up or redirect before the entire page has displayed
19:56.19drewbonoif I put javascript in the body, it should be fine as well though, right?
19:56.19wpsI am fairly certain that it does as well, feutetejsd
19:56.47drewbonoAnyone have a PC handy that they can test with?
19:59.42drewbonoClick on the "watch the action" link at the bottom.
20:00.38feutetejsdpops a window, asks me to pick a movie size....
20:00.46drewbonopick a size
20:00.54feutetejsddone...mvie playing
20:00.55drewbonoand the window _should_ resize
20:01.11feutetejsdI think it did. lemme try again, just to be sure
20:01.12drewbonodid the window resize?
20:01.49feutetejsdyup. resized
20:01.56drewbonoIn IE?
20:02.09drewbonoThx, man.
20:02.13drewbonoand everyone.
20:02.16feutetejsdyou want me to try any other browsers on Wintendo?
20:02.21wpslooks like you convinced the designer to dump the background photo, eh, drewbono?
20:02.35drewbonoYeah, but I still don't like it.
20:02.46drewbonoGraphic artist != web designer
20:03.11wps_very_ true
20:03.28drewbonoMost people don't know that--at least I didn't.
20:03.29wpsyou did a good job at putting that together though
20:03.46drewbonoIt's a hack, and still has a lot of formatting problems, but oh well.
20:03.46wpsworking with what he had given you
20:04.14drewbonoI still want to learn about PHP templates.
20:04.21drewbonoSmarty and Pear are the big players?
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20:04.27wpsI would recommend PHP
20:04.31wpswelcome, guest
20:04.44drewbono'sup guest_0789
20:04.59BiOsLaShNothing much.
20:05.26drewbonoWow--we're having a regular 'ol party here.
20:05.30wpsauto completes users nicks
20:05.46wpstype the first one or two characters of their nick and then hit tab
20:05.52BiOsLaShMost people chatting record?
20:05.57drewbonoAnd here I've been typing out feutetejsd by hand all this time!
20:06.14wpsi haven't typed more than "fe" in months
20:06.15feutetejsdmy plan has worked perfectly!!!!! MWHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
20:06.40wps"guest_9283479328" isn't much fun to type either
20:07.07wpswps has even considered being just "w"
20:07.15*** join/#byumug BiOsLaSh (
20:07.31wpsactually, I didn't LOl
20:07.32*** part/#byumug BiOsLaSh (
20:07.42wpsI just LI
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20:09.20BiOsLaShAh, much better than the web interface.
20:09.32wpswhat're you using, BiOsLaSh ?
20:09.47wpsyeah, the web client is no fun
20:09.57BiOsLaShNow I'm in Colloquy.  I'm at work and this computer didn't have it so I just downloaded it.
20:10.07wpsvery nice
20:10.19wpshas any used/tried Conversation?
20:10.22BiOsLaShSo, iWork on Friday, huh?
20:10.31wpsit's pretty nice too
20:10.41drewbonoNever used Conversation.
20:10.55drewbonoSo, since we have so many ppl in here, lemme ask a question.
20:10.57wpsall-in-all, I like Colloquy better, but Conversation is nice
20:11.19wpsit is a slightly different approach in the Ui though, so they both have their good points
20:11.22drewbonoWhat would you all think about having meetings every two weeks, one in the afternoon and one at the same time (friday at 4)
20:11.32BiOsLaShThe same meeting?
20:11.36drewbonoThe afternoon one would be a little more hands on.
20:11.38BiOsLaShor different topic?
20:11.38mrclaryI have my prefs set to delete downloaded messages from my hotmail account.  then mailbox->erase deleted messages->in all accounts.  This erases all deleted messages in all accounts on my computer.  And I think that somehow my accounts are syncronized.
20:11.40drewbonoNo, different topics.
20:11.40wpsisn't 16:00 in the afternoon?
20:11.51drewbonoit's late afternoon.
20:11.59drewbonoI'm thinking noon for the other one.
20:12.03wpswell, you know my vote on meetings: 19:00
20:12.05drewbonoa lunchtime meeting.
20:12.15feutetejsdmrclary, does that delete messages from teh server too? It's not doing it for me
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20:12.27BiOsLaShI can't make the noon meeting.
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20:12.45wpsI can't even make 16:00 meetings (still at work)
20:13.11drewbonopeople schedules stink
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20:13.24wpsbut I am a BYU anomaly
20:13.48BiOsLaShWill there be any free copies of iWork given away on Friday?
20:14.31wpsthat's too bad that Target yanked the mini
20:14.37wpsthey need to be more patient
20:14.37drewbonoI know...
20:14.47drewbonobut they were probably losing money with their 10% coupon.
20:14.58BiOsLaShAny new news on the Apple store at the Gateway mall?
20:14.59wpsthen leave the item and just make it a no-coupon item
20:15.16wpssupposed to be summer 2005, BiOsLaSh
20:15.29wpsbut you probably already know that much
20:15.40BiOsLaShA Mecca in our own backyard.
20:17.10BiOsLaShIs it supposed to be a regular store or a mini?
20:17.16wpsmac, what's you company's site again?
20:17.26wpsnot, but the other one... the partner one?
20:17.31drewbonoI'm not sure if it's regular or mini...
20:17.40drewbonoI'd bet on a mini one though.
20:17.44wpsdon't know, BiOsLaSh
20:17.49BiOsLaShOne like in Chicago would be nice.
20:18.03BiOsLaShRight on!
20:18.42wpsdrewbono: I am finding good stuff in "man hdiutil"
20:18.57drewbonoYeah, it seems really powerful.
20:19.00wpsmacnewbold: eh?
20:21.21wpsI think that this is the most activity that this channel has ever seen
20:23.37drewbonoI know...this channel rules!
20:23.59macnewboldsorry... was picking up my lunch...
20:24.05macnewboldmy website, you looking for it?
20:24.12macnewbold~google mac newbold
20:24.29macnewboldthe first two are good
20:24.35drewbono~google drewbono
20:24.50macnewboldthe other place is or
20:25.33drewbonouphpu is more popular than
20:26.55wpsdmedia is what I was looking for
20:27.19wpsis actually what I was looking for... which I knew was linked to on your home page
20:31.00macnewboldyeah, they're pretty good, IMHO
20:49.01macnewboldhehe funny... after we mentioned the link in here, about 5 people from the SLC/BYU metropolitan area hit their homepage...
20:49.32drewbonoI hit it.
20:49.41drewbonoLooks like they've done some cool stuff.
20:49.48drewbonoCompetitors of yours, wps?
20:50.18wpsindirectly I guess you could say
20:50.27wpswow, what kind of tracking do you have on there, mac?
20:50.33wps(apparently you're hosting their site)
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21:13.12macnewboldyeah, just checking the web log...
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23:32.33feutetejsdhey, do any of you use Firefox on OS X?
23:33.17wpsnearly daily, yes
23:34.01feutetejsddo you find that it seems to get slower and slower as the day wears on? For example, I'll launch Firefox in the morning, and it's all zippy, but by the end of the day, it will be much slower
23:34.17feutetejsdto the point where it will sometimes take 2-3 seconds to display a drop-down menu in a form
23:34.31feutetejsdeven when the drop-down only has 2 options
23:35.54feutetejsdhave you ever seen anything like this with Firefox?
23:37.37wpshmm... I haven't
23:38.16feutetejsddo you quit and relaunch Firefox at all during the day, or do you keep it open all day long after opening it in the morning?
23:43.50wpsum... usually open for days and days
23:48.33feutetejsdnot sure what to make of it.
23:48.45feutetejsdhow much RAM do you have? don't you have something like 50GB?
23:49.23wps2.5 GB on my powermac
23:49.38feutetejsdmaybe that's my problem I have *only* 512MB
23:49.44wpsI have never noticed it slowing down on my powerbook either though. My powerbook has 1 GB RAM.
23:49.51feutetejsdand I usually run with a lot of apps open
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