IRC log for #buglabs on 20110123

01:12.14cmwjconnolly|away: have an sd card image anywhere?
01:12.25cmwjconnolly|away: for the bug2 :)
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14:15.09jconnolly|awaycmw: we have an image here: http://repo.buglabs.net/buildbot-images/2.0/
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18:19.31cmwjconnolly|away: i was hoping for a complete image not just rootfs.. bug2 works like beagle right? has some stage2 loader on fat partion?
18:19.36cmwpartition*
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20:43.18GNUtoo|laptopcmw, not sure but it must have xload I think
20:43.30GNUtoo|laptopon some devices xload is on sd
20:43.39GNUtoo|laptopon some other device xload is on flash
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22:09.22wwwardGNUtoo|laptop: Do you know if the angstrom-2008.1 distro in OpenEmbedded can be built for Bug 1.3 and whether it requires many modifications to the bitbake configuration other than using OpenEmbedded's current git repository contents?
22:09.45wwwardhas a clone but the compilation will take over an hour.
22:09.46GNUtoo|laptopit works but require serial
22:10.01GNUtoo|laptopor blind reboot
22:10.02wwwardrequire serial to configure?
22:10.07GNUtoo|laptopor init script reorganizing
22:10.13GNUtoo|laptop*init script order
22:10.25GNUtoo|laptopbasically here's the issue:
22:10.29GNUtoo|laptopusb0 doesn't come up
22:10.31wwwardis that because it does not initialize the USB network?
22:10.32wwwardok
22:10.33GNUtoo|laptopno GUI yet
22:10.42GNUtoo|laptopand no progress bar during boot
22:10.50GNUtoo|laptopbut you could do that:
22:10.51GNUtoo|laptopboot
22:10.55GNUtoo|laptopwait a very long time
22:10.57GNUtoo|laptopreboot
22:11.01GNUtoo|laptopand usb0 will come up
22:11.03wwwardok, I have a dock at my hackerspace.
22:11.16GNUtoo|laptoplately I didn't try cold boot
22:11.18wwwarddo you know if it puts a serial terminal on any of the other serial ports than the dock?
22:11.30GNUtoo|laptopI was focussing on porting to linux-next
22:11.33wwwardok
22:11.43wwwardthanks.
22:11.48GNUtoo|laptopit doesn't but you could add it
22:12.07wwwardThe other option is copying recipes from OE to the customized Poky-Linux distro that Bug has in svn.
22:12.22wwwardBut that did not work for me last night, so I am reading the bitbake user manual today.
22:12.37wwwardthank you, that saved me a lot of time.
22:14.22GNUtoo|laptopnp
22:14.48GNUtoo|laptopmaybe I'll try to improve a bit oe support when I will get the 2 displays working again
22:14.59GNUtoo|laptopthat is to say when bug 2.0 will be out
22:15.25GNUtoo|laptopwwward, what do you think of linux-next work?
22:15.30GNUtoo|laptopis it worth?
22:15.57GNUtoo|laptopit's also a way of learning for me
22:16.13GNUtoo|laptopbtw I'm looking for some patch to enable kgdb
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22:16.19wwwardGNUtoo|laptop: I am trying to install Diaspora (http://joindiaspora.com) on a Bug, it requires Ruby 1.8.7 and a few other packages that I did not find in the poky-linux distro, plus an app called "redis" that does not appear to have any recipe.  So I want to learn how to get those packages onto Bug 1.3 because I have a few Bug 1.3s
22:16.27GNUtoo|laptopwow!!!!!!!!
22:16.31GNUtoo|laptopthe freedom box!!!!!!!!
22:16.36wwwardGNUtoo|laptop: I do not know what linux-next is yet.
22:16.56wwwardGNUtoo|laptop: I have been trying to study OE for the past two weekends before school starts next week.
22:16.59GNUtoo|laptopof our steeve jobs(eben moglen)
22:17.15wwwardGNUtoo|laptop: Yes, I saw Eben Moglen when he talked about it in January 2010.
22:17.42wwwardGNUtoo|laptop: He spoke at my university, and later at HackNY in April 2010 when the Diaspora team originally started hacking on it.
22:17.45GNUtoo|laptopwow
22:17.53GNUtoo|laptopI'll see him for real at fosdem I think
22:19.00wwwardGNUtoo|laptop: I've seen him a few times around here in NYC.  I desperately want to learn OE to get more code onto machines like the Beagleboard and Sheevaplug and such.
22:19.11wwwardYou can afford to lose them or deploy them.
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22:19.40wwwardWhat is Linux-next?
22:19.58GNUtoo|laptoplinux-next is the next linux kernel
22:20.03GNUtoo|laptopfor instance 2.6.38
22:20.10GNUtoo|laptopit's where the merge window happens
22:20.25wwwardis linux-next a distro from OE?
22:20.33GNUtoo|laptopso basically I'm trying to get some minimal bug 1.3 in upstream
22:20.34GNUtoo|laptopno
22:20.36wwwardbefore it is formalized?
22:20.38GNUtoo|laptopwhen I mean linux
22:20.38wwwardoh
22:20.41GNUtoo|laptopI mean the kernel
22:20.43wwwardok
22:20.52wwwardso the bleeding edge kernel release.
22:20.56GNUtoo|laptopyes
22:21.01GNUtoo|laptopI sent the patch
22:21.07GNUtoo|laptopI'm waiting for the comments
22:21.14GNUtoo|laptopit has serial port only for now
22:21.17wwwardyou submitted a patch to the linux kernel for what?
22:21.19GNUtoo|laptopI'll try to add microsd after
22:21.25GNUtoo|laptopfor bugbase 1.3 support
22:21.33GNUtoo|laptopI submited another patch before
22:21.41GNUtoo|laptopbut it had nothing to do with the bug device
22:21.44GNUtoo|laptopand was accepted
22:21.44wwwardwhat does the patch add specifically?
22:22.01wwwardthat's good for your career.
22:22.01GNUtoo|laptopbugbase 1.3 machine + its main serial port
22:22.07GNUtoo|laptopthe one that is on the dock
22:22.42wwwardSo with a the patch accepted, I would be able to compile the kernel and boot it on the Bug without any modification?
22:22.47GNUtoo|laptopI think the best thing for my career is to finish university
22:22.51wwwardhahah
22:23.00GNUtoo|laptopbecause it seem that a lot of companies are willing to employ me
22:23.13GNUtoo|laptopbut I'm not sure if they are willing to do it if I've not finished university
22:23.19wwwardYes, that is true, but afterwards, when you look for work, you can always show that you could submit patches to a large organization.
22:23.27wwwardyou would be surprised.
22:23.28GNUtoo|laptopyes
22:23.32wwwardbut you're right, finishing is most important.
22:23.36GNUtoo|laptopyes indeed
22:24.12GNUtoo|laptopas I've many commit access and did many work I've a great curiculum for now
22:24.34wwwardi agree.
22:26.37wwwardThanks for doing that.  I'll use that effort to put new apps on the bug, and hopefully get something out the door that we can use in the field.
22:27.22GNUtoo|laptopthe main problem is that I'm involved in too much projects
22:27.40GNUtoo|laptopwwward, for the freedom box you need AP?
22:28.19GNUtoo|laptopnote that the bug device,specially the 2.0, while beeing so great for beeing a freedom box, is not cheap
22:28.38wwwardGNUtoo|laptop: I know what you mean, I have to work to find the time to do this.  So many other things that demand attention, school, exercise, friends, work.
22:28.49GNUtoo|laptopok
22:29.12GNUtoo|laptoplinux-next can get easier AP
22:29.16wwwardGNUtoo|laptop: I don't think the Bug would be a freedom box for everyone, I use it because I have them.  I think something like modifying DD-WRT or using a Beagleboard or Sheevaplug is the freedom box of the future.
22:29.21GNUtoo|laptopmy plan was better wifi and better audio
22:29.35GNUtoo|laptopDD-wrt is not powerfull enough
22:29.43GNUtoo|laptopsheevaplug has some nice devices
22:29.49GNUtoo|laptopguru plug and such derivates
22:29.51wwwardDD-WRT is not powerful enough on hardware?
22:29.53GNUtoo|laptop2GHz + AP
22:30.08GNUtoo|laptopno hardware like wrt54gsv4 is not powerfull enough
22:30.14GNUtoo|laptopto run ruby etc...
22:30.27wwwardOh.
22:30.30GNUtoo|laptopos-wise debian is better for that kind of thing
22:30.35wwwardYou don't think the newer routers will have more power?
22:30.36GNUtoo|laptops/os/and os/
22:30.44GNUtoo|laptopyes they should have
22:30.50GNUtoo|laptopbut the original old ones don't
22:31.00GNUtoo|laptopand I'm unsure how much power they have
22:31.08GNUtoo|laptopanyway there is a 2GHz sheevaplug with AP
22:31.12wwwardOk, that's good to know.  I put faith in newer hardware having a lot of spare CPU.
22:31.25GNUtoo|laptopbut maybe if you have a bug device:
22:31.29GNUtoo|laptopyou use it:
22:31.37wwwardI have three bug 1's
22:31.40GNUtoo|laptopuse the usb connector to get usb host
22:31.43GNUtoo|laptopok wow
22:31.59GNUtoo|laptopI've bug 1-wifi and bug-1-without-wifi
22:32.04wwwardThis one: http://www.nycresistor.com/2011/01/21/frznmargawiki-a-wiki-on-the-wall/
22:32.34wwwardand two 1.3a's at home.
22:32.46wwwardone has a broken bluetooth radio, but I found that my USB bluetooth dongle works with hcitool
22:32.50GNUtoo|laptopok nice
22:33.04GNUtoo|laptopnote that Von Hippel is optional for USB
22:33.07wwwardSo they are good for developing.
22:33.14GNUtoo|laptopyou can use the bugbase mini-usb as host
22:33.15wwwardI am using VH for the BT USB
22:33.25wwwarddo you have to change software setting to get mini-usb host?
22:33.27GNUtoo|laptopso you use VH on another bug
22:33.29wwwardor use special cable?
22:33.35wwwardI have a VH for each bug
22:33.38GNUtoo|laptopI'm not sure
22:33.45GNUtoo|laptopI do it like that:
22:33.56GNUtoo|laptopconnect my mini-usb->usb-female cable
22:34.00wwwardI know there is a 5th pin for OTG host mode
22:34.01GNUtoo|laptopsome modprobe foo
22:34.06GNUtoo|laptopand I've usb host
22:34.24wwwardbut that is only mini-usb
22:34.25GNUtoo|laptopI thinkthe mini-usb special cable is mandatory
22:34.28GNUtoo|laptopbut I'm not sure
22:34.32wwwardah microusb
22:34.39GNUtoo|laptopno mini-usb
22:34.49GNUtoo|laptopmicro-usb is the new standard for european phones
22:34.56wwwardyes, mini has it (i just counted)
22:35.00GNUtoo|laptopok
22:35.03GNUtoo|laptops/no/no,/
22:35.19wwwardi was trying to figure out why there was a 5th pin and read about OTG using it.
22:35.34wwwardanyway, yes, bug is for development
22:35.46wwwardbeagleboard, sheevaplug (as you say) and maybe hacking newer ARM routers.
22:36.00wwwardUsing a Linksys or Netgear router would be nice because so many people already own them.
22:36.18GNUtoo|laptopsheevaplug is not that expensive
22:37.03wwwardTrue, but if you could download a Freedombox-image from a website and use the web UI for the Linksys to load it, that would be very easy for many people to try.  Selling Sheevaplug+FreedomOS? would be nice also.
22:37.25GNUtoo|laptopimagine a box which does everything
22:37.28wwwardheh
22:37.35GNUtoo|laptopthat box include openvpn
22:37.42wwwardIPv6 tunnel!
22:37.42GNUtoo|laptopopenvpn is too slow for low-end routers
22:37.53wwwardsure.
22:37.58GNUtoo|laptopso...that would be kind of complicated to run it on low-end hardware
22:38.08GNUtoo|laptopa sheevaplug is better
22:38.16wwwardMaybe features are dependent on CPU size.
22:38.23GNUtoo|laptopa bug device has advantages too:
22:38.27GNUtoo|laptop*it has a battery
22:38.33GNUtoo|laptop*it has wifi AP
22:38.48wwwardBug2 can do wifi AP, can bug1.3?
22:38.56wwwardonly with USB wifi?
22:38.59GNUtoo|laptopbug 1.3, not currently
22:39.06GNUtoo|laptopit's a software issue
22:39.14wwwardlibertas driver
22:39.18GNUtoo|laptopyou need to port the olpc driver to bug 1.3
22:39.30GNUtoo|laptopbasically there are 2 libertas drivers
22:39.31GNUtoo|laptoplibertas
22:39.35GNUtoo|laptopand libertastf
22:39.48GNUtoo|laptoplibertastf does AP
22:39.54GNUtoo|laptopwe have libertas
22:40.03GNUtoo|laptoptf  = thin firmware
22:40.14wwwardwhat needs to be done to port?
22:40.27GNUtoo|laptopthin firmware = softmac = mac80211 in the kernel
22:40.38GNUtoo|laptopfirst do what I'm doing
22:40.43GNUtoo|laptopforward port the kernel
22:40.55GNUtoo|laptopthen maybe we get it for free, who knows
22:41.21wwwardthat means the CPU handles all physical layer of Wifi?
22:41.29wwwardmac layer, not physical. sorry.
22:41.42wwwardheavy cpu or no?
22:42.16GNUtoo|laptopmac80211(mac layer in software,handled by the cpu, with a firmware doing less work possible) is better
22:42.26GNUtoo|laptopyou depend less on a proprietary firmware
22:42.48GNUtoo|laptopfor instance many wifi chips couln't have AP because it was not in the firmware
22:43.17wwwardright. ok.
22:43.55GNUtoo|laptopsome chips even have 2 firmwares
22:43.57GNUtoo|laptopone for AP
22:44.06GNUtoo|laptopand one for normal use(sta = station mode)
22:44.37wwwardNot the chip used in the Bug.  I could get a USB WiFi radio that has two firmwares?
22:45.38wwwardad-hoc would work for people smart enough to find ad-hoc but so many devices don't support it.
22:46.10GNUtoo|laptopget one that has AP capabilities
22:46.22GNUtoo|laptopbut beware of the mA limitations
22:46.34GNUtoo|laptopI've an rt3870
22:46.45GNUtoo|laptopit didn't work well last summer
22:46.50GNUtoo|laptopbut it has an external antenna
22:46.59GNUtoo|laptopwhich is important for the range
22:47.09wwwardthat's the one you used when you were on holiday.
22:47.18wwwarddid it support AP?
22:47.18GNUtoo|laptopyes
22:47.21GNUtoo|laptopyes
22:47.27GNUtoo|laptopno-name brand tough
22:48.02wwwardhmmm.
22:48.40GNUtoo|laptopbb on n900
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