irclog2html for blob on 2001.11.19

01:56:35SammyRuss: watch this
05:07:35Sammyer meeting :)
08:12:27Sammyis back
09:56:36Sammyhello erikm , welcome back from boring meeting
09:57:21erikmhello Sammy :)
10:47:01Sammychange place & search dinner
10:58:57amruthaerikm: Hi
10:59:25amruthaerikm: Hi
14:23:31sammy_wmserikm:what's "brb" ?
14:31:02erikmbe right back
14:34:21sammy_wmshe.he. copy that , so I can use it when Sammy quit
14:36:20erikmsammy_wms: there's also bbl (be back later)
14:37:59erikmsomebody wo is brb will return earlier than somebody who is bbl
14:40:19sammy_wmssha sha knee :)
14:41:50sammy_wmsthis is the chinese language mean's thank you
14:42:33erikmhmm, I'll have to remember to use that with my chinese co-workers :)
14:46:27sammy_wmserikm:  you should see this ,more useful ,
14:47:25sammy_wmsfirst line = how are you or how is you doing today , second line = I am fine or good :)
14:49:54erikmI knew the first line, but I've learned it without the "ma" part.
15:04:41sammy_wmserikm: sorry that's ma is for ask , like " ? "
15:05:34erikmsammy_wms: ok, makes sense
15:12:20Russmorning erikm
15:12:41erikmhello Russ
15:13:48Russerikm: don't suppose you got a chance to look at that backlight stuff
15:14:32erikmRuss: not really. meeting on thursday and friday
15:14:45erikmRuss: and I've been to my brother for the whole weekend
15:16:18erikmRuss: didi you submit it to the patch system?
15:16:55Russnot yet, I'm waiting to get some comment on the userside interface from the person writing the userspace stuff
20:02:27BZFlagerikm: you around?
20:03:43erikmBZFlag: yes
20:05:58BZFlagGPL section 2.c seems to require a GPL and no warantee statement at the prompt.
20:06:24BZFlagI just had a conversation with the CRL folk on this and they added a one liner:
20:06:39erikmBZFlag: no
20:06:56erikmBZFlag: I mean: yes
20:06:58BZFlag(c) 2000-2001 Compaq Computer Corporation, provided with NO WARRANTY under the terms of the
20:06:58BZFlagGNU General Public License.
20:07:07BZFlagon the GPLed version.
20:07:10erikmBZFlag: sorry, I was confused
20:07:43BZFlagare you still? ;-)
20:08:02erikmBZFlag: yes, it requires a no warranty statement, but you don't have to supply extra stuff
20:08:21erikmBZFlag: I asked RMS about that when I started blob
20:08:46erikmBZFlag: let me dig in my mailbox...
20:08:54BZFlagit indicates copyright,warantee and GPL information as required.
20:09:57erikmgot it
20:10:07erikmI asked:
20:10:10erikm    The short notice is no problem, but if I want to implement the "show w"
20:10:10erikm    and "show c" options, I have to include pretty large parts of the GPL into
20:10:10erikm    the bootloader image, which I'd like to keep small (Flash ROM is a
20:10:10erikm    precious resource). Is it possible to use references to the GPL instead?
20:10:27erikmand RMS replied:
20:10:34erikmYou don't HAVE to make it print such a notice.  That is optional.
20:10:34erikmIt is up to you.
20:10:34erikmThe GPL says that IF the program prints such a notice,
20:10:34erikmother people who modify it cannot remove the notice.
20:10:34erikmBut you as the initial author can decide not to put one in.
20:19:42BZFlagI get from reading that, that if copyright and/or warranty info is displayed, then the GPL reference must also be displayed.
20:20:05BZFlagI do NOT get get the GPL itself need to be displayed, just a reference to it.
20:20:50erikmI asked him about the "show c" and "show c" examples in the GPL
20:20:57BZFlag    c) If the modified program normally reads commands interactively
20:20:57BZFlag    when run, you must cause it, when started running for such
20:20:57BZFlag    interactive use in the most ordinary way, to print or display an
20:20:57BZFlag    announcement including an appropriate copyright notice and a
20:20:57BZFlag    notice that there is no warranty (or else, saying that you provide
20:20:58BZFlag    a warranty) and that users may redistribute the program under
20:21:00BZFlag    these conditions, and telling the user how to view a copy of this
20:21:02BZFlag    License.  (Exception: if the Program itself is interactive but
20:21:04BZFlag    does not normally print such an announcement, your work based on
20:21:06BZFlag    the Program is not required to print an announcement.)
20:21:17erikmthat's exactly what blob does
20:22:20BZFlaghmmm. /me does not recall a notice: users may redistribute the program under these conditions, and telling the user how to view a copy of this License.
20:23:29BZFlagI also do not see the "show c" example you refer to.
20:23:31erikmthat's what I asked RMS, you don't *need* to display that
20:25:04BZFlagI think ( and jamey agreed ) that showing a one liner is a Good Thing to be sure.
20:25:51erikmCopyright (C) 1999 2000 2001 Jan-Derk Bakker and Erik Mouw
20:25:51BZFlag(c) 2001 ErikM, provided with NO WARRANTY under the terms of the GNU General Public License.   should suffice.
20:26:19erikmblob comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; read the GNU GPL for details.
20:26:31BZFlagso could "provided with NO WARRANTY under the terms of the GNU General Public License" be added?
20:27:24erikmyes, but why?
20:27:28BZFlagimagine some popular handheld shipping with blob. I would think you would want the end user to be aware of thier rights.
20:27:38erikmthey are
20:27:52BZFlagI know of one case where they are not.
20:27:54erikmit's what blob prints right now
20:28:13BZFlaghuh? /me looks around for a blobbed box...
20:28:13erikmsee src/blob/main.c
20:28:56BZFlagugh... nevermind.
20:29:13BZFlagdid not recall that text at all, just the copyright stuff.
20:29:30BZFlagI'm an idiot. too many bootloaders. =(
20:29:35erikmhehe ;)
20:30:12BZFlagyes, that's works great. I'd been looking at the illegal HP version that removed that text.
20:30:40erikmehm, and what about the bern convention?
20:31:04erikmimplemented in most copyright laws
20:31:27erikmit basically says that removing or changing copyright notices is illegal
20:31:52BZFlagI agree. I'm trying to get the HP version corrected and updated.
20:32:10BZFlagmight be a non-issue as it looks like the product will never ship.
20:32:13erikmthey should definitively upgrade to blob-2.0.5-pre1 ;)
20:32:43BZFlagoh, good news on that front. It looks like I will have a paying contract for blob work.
20:32:59BZFlagthey want boot from CF and hands free updates
20:33:13erikmremembers to prod rmk and benh
20:33:49BZFlagI expect to start later this week or early next week. probably start with a tux for now till I get demo hardware from them.
20:39:31BZFlagthanx for listening. /me recalls someone he has to poke on the HP version issue.
21:06:10i heard 1+1 was 3 for large values of 1
21:06:10duckibot: 1+1?
21:26:16BZFlagerikm: duck is here at lineo and interested in a arm7? arm9? some other arm port of blob.
21:26:28erikmBZFlag: that would be nice
21:26:36BZFlagI seem to recall it's arm7tdmi
21:26:41BZFlagwhacks duck
21:27:01duck720t core, actually
21:27:10BZFlagerikm: how many strongarm isms do you think he will find?
21:27:39erikmBZFlag: not too many. memsetup-*.S, and serial.c
21:28:15BZFlagduck, you have a toolchains and a compiling, but not working, binary now?
21:28:36duckand led.c and time.c ...
21:28:43erikmBZFlag: oh, and start.S, of course
21:28:52duckyeah, quite a few #ifdef's here and there.
21:28:52BZFlagerikm: have you done hardware jtag debugging under with blob? or just serial print?
21:29:05erikmduck: yup, those two as well
21:29:15erikmBZFlag: no, the LED was our debug method
21:29:40BZFlagso do we want to #ifdef some more or should we think about extracting further?
21:30:49duckericm: I've got jeeni access to my board, and I think I have to link an elf32 blob to get it to my board, no?
21:31:06erikmduck: no, you want blob
21:31:19BZFlagerikm: huh??
21:31:40erikmduck: blob-elf32 is the binary with the ELF headers, blob is  stripped
21:31:54BZFlagahh... /me follows now.
21:31:57duckericm: so how do I convince gdb to load blob (as data) to my board?
21:32:28erikmduck: ehm, I don't know. I write blob to flash with jtag
21:33:27erikmduck: but if you have something on the board that can relocate the image, you could use one of the ELF images
21:33:28duckericm: I didn't get a blob-elf32 when I was done make-ing
21:34:19BZFlagduck: you should have a src/blob-*-elf32
21:34:35BZFlagstart and rest are the two pieces.
21:34:36erikmBZFlag: actually src/blob/blob-elf32
21:34:44erikmBZFlag: (with the CVS version)
21:35:07BZFlagerikm: hmmm.. ah. /me needs to get new cvs updates now and start digging in again.
21:35:12erikmand I really recommend the CVS version or blob-2.0.5-pre1, cause that's much cleaner code
21:35:25BZFlagI suppose I sould even subscribe to -commits for a while. ;-)
21:36:50duckerikm: I've got CVS, and blob-{rest,start, start-chain}-elf32, but no blob-elf32.  Can I just link the 3 pieces together to get blob-elf32?
21:37:56erikmduck: the makefile should link blob-start and blob-rest together into blob
21:38:08erikmduck: or actually: dd them together
21:38:54erikmduck: samy holds for blob-start-chain and blob-rest, they make up blob-chain
21:39:29erikmduck: the linux kernel source has a dirty trick to make an ELF image from a binary image. it was some linker magic.
21:40:59duckerikm: I believe blob is the output of dd, and is not an elf-32 file.
21:41:09erikmduck: that's right
21:41:50duckerikm: I *think* I need an elf file to give to gdb to be loaded to the board (via jeeni), no?
21:42:07erikmduck: found it. check out the piggy.o target in arch/i386/boot/compressed/Makefile
21:42:24erikmduck: I don't know, I haven't used jeeni
21:44:11duckerikm: duck will inspect the piggy.
21:44:49erikmduck: piggy.o basically creates an object file from a binary bunch of data
21:45:42duckerikm: jeeni is a device that talks gdb to the host, and JTAG to the target.  My CPU has 720T core, hence really knows how to talk JTAG.
21:46:44erikmduck: I guess jeeni can't program the flash
21:47:50duckerikm: I was hoping to have it stick blob into ram, run it, and have blob download another copy of itself and flash that.
21:48:06erikmduck: then you'd better start with the blob-chain image, load that somewhere in ram, and start it
21:48:20erikmduck: provided that the RAM has been set up, of course
21:49:19duckerikm: Yeah, a lot of stuff has to be poked into regs to setup SDRAM ctrlr before jeeni can d/l stuff to ram.
21:49:52erikmduck: ok, in that case start with blob-chain. it's a position independent first level loader
21:50:49erikmduck: it will help you to get the second level loader running without having to deal with the memory at first
21:52:36duckerikm: ok, cool.
21:53:57erikmduck: I still need to document this kind of stuff :)
21:54:14duckerikm: that would be helpful.
21:54:37duckerikm: BZFlag says you have some primitive network patches?
21:55:35erikmduck: that's right, but I need to sort out the licensing issues with rmk about that
21:55:52erikmanyway, zzz time
21:56:04erikmduck: feel free to mail me
21:56:33BZFlagthanx erikm. nite
21:56:35duckerikm: ok, i think i'll do that.

Generated by by Jeff Waugh - find it at! Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot logs, split per channel and by date, etc.