00:05.08 | *** join/#asterisk lankanmon_ (~LKNnet@CPEb4fbe4e331bd-CM64777d632380.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
00:09.38 | *** join/#asterisk Janos (~Janos@201.204.94.76) |
01:23.22 | *** join/#asterisk spatel (~spatel@pool-96-237-230-64.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
02:02.32 | rue_mohr | how does one get messages about failing sip login attempts? |
02:04.43 | Samot | One parses log files. |
02:04.53 | *** join/#asterisk MICROburst1 (~Thunderbi@x4d0b1641.dyn.telefonica.de) |
02:15.40 | rue_mohr | so, it wont come up in asterisk -r with debug and verbose set to 9? |
02:17.21 | Samot | Sure it would. |
02:17.49 | Samot | But if you're trying to debug login attempts you should be looking at the actual SIP messages |
02:18.24 | rue_mohr | ok how do I get to those? |
02:18.38 | rue_mohr | I'm outdated, I knew 1.6 |
02:18.59 | rue_mohr | I'm confused as there only seems to be pgsip in the console |
02:19.01 | igcewieling | tcpdump, wireshark, sngrep |
02:19.06 | rue_mohr | I dont know if ... oh |
02:19.33 | rue_mohr | so, I should find out about bad login attempts at the packet level... |
02:20.00 | igcewieling | you could fight with "pjsip set logging" settings, but the other tools might be useful too. |
02:20.10 | rue_mohr | I just want to see the fails for the account I told a device to use that I' havn't made yet |
02:20.45 | igcewieling | you can set logging for a specific IP with pjsip |
02:20.57 | rue_mohr | phony3*CLI> pjsip |
02:20.57 | rue_mohr | No such command 'pjsip' (type 'core show help pjsip' for other possible commands) |
02:21.06 | rue_mohr | hmm |
02:21.10 | igcewieling | you must be using chan_sip then. |
02:21.21 | igcewieling | there are a zillion pages on debugging with chan_sip |
02:21.37 | rue_mohr | then chan_sip should say something, right? |
02:21.42 | rue_mohr | I get the same error |
02:21.50 | rue_mohr | maybe I blew the compile |
02:22.01 | igcewieling | "module show" to see what modules are loaded |
02:22.17 | [TK]D-Fender | how do you not even know what you configured? |
02:22.24 | igcewieling | assuming you are running a modern version of Astrisk |
02:22.28 | rue_mohr | res_pjsip |
02:22.29 | [TK]D-Fender | If you have to ask about PJSIP then you aren't even there |
02:22.33 | rue_mohr | its hot off git |
02:22.46 | [TK]D-Fender | sip.conf <---------- |
02:22.54 | [TK]D-Fender | you're on regular chan_sip if you have to ask at all |
02:23.02 | [TK]D-Fender | and regular SIP debug is still there |
02:23.08 | rue_mohr | no chan_sip |
02:23.26 | [TK]D-Fender | pjsip <tab> |
02:23.26 | [TK]D-Fender | ^ |
02:23.30 | [TK]D-Fender | go prove it's loaded |
02:23.31 | *** join/#asterisk Typhon (~Typhon@dslb-084-056-169-220.084.056.pools.vodafone-ip.de) |
02:23.34 | [TK]D-Fender | pjsip show endpoints |
02:23.42 | [TK]D-Fender | and you've configured them at all |
02:23.43 | rue_mohr | res_pjsip |
02:23.50 | [TK]D-Fender | show it |
02:23.52 | rue_mohr | pjsip isn't an available command |
02:24.09 | rue_mohr | oh it... |
02:24.21 | rue_mohr | :) tab tab |
02:24.25 | [TK]D-Fender | TAB <----------- |
02:24.29 | [TK]D-Fender | hit the damn key |
02:24.52 | [TK]D-Fender | pjsip show endpoints |
02:24.53 | rue_mohr | I did its there |
02:24.53 | [TK]D-Fender | ^ |
02:24.59 | [TK]D-Fender | I gave you a FULL command too.... |
02:24.59 | rue_mohr | I'm playing |
02:25.03 | [TK]D-Fender | pjsip set logger on |
02:25.04 | [TK]D-Fender | ^ |
02:25.07 | [TK]D-Fender | to look for traffic |
02:25.21 | rue_mohr | pjsip show endpoints |
02:25.21 | rue_mohr | No objects found. |
02:25.32 | rue_mohr | that means there aren't any accounts created? |
02:25.32 | [TK]D-Fender | So nothing configured |
02:25.40 | [TK]D-Fender | Did you MAKE them? |
02:25.55 | rue_mohr | ok, so I have a device trying to log in, I should be able to see the errors, right? |
02:26.01 | rue_mohr | I wanted to see the errors first |
02:26.06 | [TK]D-Fender | I gave you the command for that TWICE.... |
02:26.14 | [TK]D-Fender | Assuming it's even hitting the right port |
02:26.18 | [TK]D-Fender | Or anything is listening at all |
02:26.28 | rue_mohr | exactly what I wanted to start with |
02:26.28 | [TK]D-Fender | You haven' confirmed that you configured ANYTHING' |
02:26.47 | [TK]D-Fender | And this game of "secret squirrel" is getting tiring. |
02:26.48 | rue_mohr | I didn't I want to see it telling my device its login in denied |
02:26.55 | [TK]D-Fender | What did you actually MAKE? |
02:27.11 | rue_mohr | its got the example config |
02:27.17 | [TK]D-Fender | I don't know that it is being denied |
02:27.36 | [TK]D-Fender | I don't know if packets are making it to your server at all |
02:27.43 | [TK]D-Fender | or if it's going to the right port |
02:27.48 | rue_mohr | me either, but I _have_ just leaned that there is chan_sip and pjsip |
02:27.56 | rue_mohr | and that chan_sip is considered better |
02:28.00 | [TK]D-Fender | it isn't |
02:28.10 | [TK]D-Fender | chan_sip = OLD. |
02:28.12 | [TK]D-Fender | And going away |
02:28.15 | rue_mohr | ah |
02:28.18 | [TK]D-Fender | (slowly) |
02:28.21 | rue_mohr | who was pj? |
02:28.35 | [TK]D-Fender | the name of a 3rd party back-end * adopted |
02:28.46 | rue_mohr | nods |
02:28.48 | [TK]D-Fender | pjsip is a SEPARATE stack engine |
02:28.57 | rue_mohr | thoguht it would be a guy like kb |
02:29.01 | [TK]D-Fender | no |
02:29.07 | rue_mohr | it makes sense, sip isn't audio |
02:29.12 | [TK]D-Fender | no |
02:29.22 | [TK]D-Fender | that doesn't even mean anything |
02:29.26 | [TK]D-Fender | separate or by contrast |
02:30.11 | rue_mohr | I have to read up on pjsip.conf for a while, thanks |
02:30.39 | [TK]D-Fender | Were you hoping to see it LAND ... and THEn go lear to actually configure it working backwards from the point of getting an ERROR? |
02:30.57 | rue_mohr | yup |
02:31.05 | [TK]D-Fender | dumb |
02:31.17 | rue_mohr | would you like to configure this for me? |
02:31.18 | rue_mohr | ;) |
02:31.25 | [TK]D-Fender | step 1: break things. Step 2: try to add 1 little piece and see if it crumbles |
02:31.35 | [TK]D-Fender | There's friggen guides for this |
02:31.47 | [TK]D-Fender | and you're assuming anything is even listening when you don't know how it works |
02:31.53 | rue_mohr | look, the breaking either happens in the beggining or the end |
02:31.55 | [TK]D-Fender | Total waste of everyone's time |
02:32.12 | rue_mohr | if you start broken, it all gonna get better |
02:32.18 | [TK]D-Fender | You can't interpret the failure when you don't know what "good" is supposed to look like |
02:32.25 | [TK]D-Fender | And you're not going to dfind that going backwards |
02:32.38 | [TK]D-Fender | There are samples and guides for this |
02:32.42 | [TK]D-Fender | follow them |
02:32.51 | rue_mohr | I'v leanred to use pjsip, and that it seems to be completely turned off by default |
02:33.16 | [TK]D-Fender | .... |
02:33.19 | [TK]D-Fender | meaningless. |
02:33.26 | [TK]D-Fender | as well as the term "default" |
02:33.41 | [TK]D-Fender | Default is nonsense. It's your job to configure ALL of Asterisk |
02:33.46 | [TK]D-Fender | Anyhting not configured is your fault |
02:33.58 | [TK]D-Fender | there is no "default" |
02:34.04 | [TK]D-Fender | or spoon(feeding) |
02:34.14 | rue_mohr | I'm reffering to the example config as a default |
02:34.19 | [TK]D-Fender | it isn't |
02:34.31 | [TK]D-Fender | it's a basic set of examples being only that |
02:34.33 | rue_mohr | its what was shipped |
02:34.38 | [TK]D-Fender | and they do function when used correctly |
02:34.49 | [TK]D-Fender | For what little they can "practically" do |
02:36.17 | rue_mohr | in the last 14 years, have you become any less "I'm not grumpy" ? |
02:37.47 | [TK]D-Fender | And all this time you still play the "secret squirrel" game having us chare around after your BS |
02:38.12 | [TK]D-Fender | Learn * like everybody else |
02:38.16 | rue_mohr | I'm working on replacing the 1.6 machine |
02:38.44 | rue_mohr | I'm not everyone else, I'm nobody, there is like literally NOBODY outthere I can relate to |
02:38.55 | [TK]D-Fender | THANK GOD |
02:39.05 | [TK]D-Fender | I'd hate to imagine there being alother.... |
02:39.14 | rue_mohr | I'm looking tho |
02:39.56 | rue_mohr | so far I have 600 twitter followers..... havn't found any among them yet... some GREAT people tho! |
02:46.04 | rue_mohr | hmm, endpoint and auth types, I'm used to this all being togethor and they seem to not be... |
02:47.51 | rue_mohr | "You have Installed Asterisk including the res_pjsip and chan_pjsip modules and their dependencies." wait I have no chan_pjsip.... |
02:48.44 | rue_mohr | oh I'm insane I do :))) |
02:58.37 | rue_mohr | heh, this manual just says "RTFM" |
03:07.06 | rue_mohr | type=endpoint |
03:07.15 | rue_mohr | vs type=auth |
03:07.24 | rue_mohr | vs type=aor |
03:07.29 | rue_mohr | https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/Asterisk+12+Configuration_res_pjsip |
03:07.39 | rue_mohr | says type must be endpoint |
03:07.42 | rue_mohr | wtf?!?!! |
03:08.35 | rue_mohr | Asterisk GIT-master-a47cb71bb1 |
03:08.38 | rue_mohr | is this 12? |
03:09.39 | rue_mohr | maybe its 17 |
03:10.21 | rue_mohr | <PROTECTED> |
03:10.35 | rue_mohr | type clearly does NOT have to be 'endpoint' |
03:11.44 | [TK]D-Fender | What doesn't? |
03:12.41 | [TK]D-Fender | taht page isn't abou the basic concepts |
03:12.43 | rue_mohr | in the example configs, [6001] |
03:12.48 | rue_mohr | type=endpoint |
03:12.50 | [TK]D-Fender | that's a bare syntax breakdown |
03:12.52 | [TK]D-Fender | not WHY |
03:12.56 | [TK]D-Fender | or what it MEANS |
03:13.06 | [TK]D-Fender | You're still trying to reverse engineer understanding. |
03:13.19 | rue_mohr | I'm trying to understand 'type' |
03:13.22 | [TK]D-Fender | READ THE BEGINNERS GUIDE |
03:13.29 | rue_mohr | the documentation says it must be set to endpoint |
03:13.37 | rue_mohr | and its not in the other two lines |
03:13.44 | [TK]D-Fender | not the "technical reference" and think that you're going to put them together where all the pieces work |
03:13.51 | [TK]D-Fender | because you don't understand the relationships yet |
03:13.59 | [TK]D-Fender | "it"? |
03:14.05 | [TK]D-Fender | WHAT "IT" |
03:14.15 | [TK]D-Fender | ther are MULTIPLE pieces needed for 1 stupid phone to work <- |
03:14.18 | rue_mohr | lets pastebin this |
03:14.29 | [TK]D-Fender | MULTIEPL entires with multiple TYPE's |
03:14.53 | [TK]D-Fender | This isn't sip.conf with 1 stupid section holding everything |
03:15.00 | rue_mohr | hmm cant copy from this terminal that sucks |
03:15.03 | [TK]D-Fender | that idea goes out the window |
03:15.32 | [TK]D-Fender | There is no singular [fred] in 1 section to completely define a phone. |
03:15.37 | [TK]D-Fender | it's all broken up now |
03:15.41 | [TK]D-Fender | GO READ |
03:15.57 | [TK]D-Fender | Because you don't understand the types or their relationships |
03:16.04 | [TK]D-Fender | and that page is NOT the place |
03:17.57 | rue_mohr | look in jpsip.conf there is param called type= and its set to endpoint, auth, and aor in the different examples, but the document https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/Asterisk+17+Configuration_res_pjsip#Asterisk17Configuration_res_pjsip-endpoint_auth only says that it must be set to "endpoint" |
03:19.19 | rue_mohr | but it includes aors, which is an option for type |
03:19.26 | [TK]D-Fender | "it" |
03:19.28 | [TK]D-Fender | what IT |
03:19.31 | [TK]D-Fender | there is no "it" |
03:19.35 | [TK]D-Fender | it is not SINGULAR |
03:19.47 | [TK]D-Fender | ]you have to set up EACH of these things' |
03:19.49 | rue_mohr | I cant say anything without using the word it dude |
03:19.53 | [TK]D-Fender | stop talking as though there is ONE piece |
03:19.54 | [TK]D-Fender | "IT" |
03:20.03 | [TK]D-Fender | Worthless |
03:20.55 | [TK]D-Fender | <rue_mohr> look in jpsip.conf there is param called type= and its set to endpoint, auth, and aor in the different examples, but the document https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/Asterisk+17+Configuration_res_pjsip#Asterisk17Configuration_res_pjsip-endpoint_auth only says that it must be set to "endpoint" |
03:21.02 | rue_mohr | look in jpsip.conf there is param called type= and the param "type=" set to endpoint, auth, and aor in the different examples, but the document https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/Asterisk+17+Configuration_res_pjsip#Asterisk17Configuration_res_pjsip-endpoint_auth only says that the paramiter "type=" must be set to "endpoint" |
03:21.22 | [TK]D-Fender | Wow.. so the section of the page talking about making and endpoint .... tells you to set "type=endpoint". |
03:21.27 | [TK]D-Fender | WHERE';S THE MYSTERY |
03:21.39 | [TK]D-Fender | to make that KIND of section... you SET IT |
03:21.44 | [TK]D-Fender | What's the damn myester? |
03:22.01 | [TK]D-Fender | To make a section an AOR..... you set type=aor |
03:22.04 | [TK]D-Fender | mystery* |
03:23.42 | [TK]D-Fender | That page is not where you should be to leaern this |
03:23.50 | [TK]D-Fender | Stop wasting everyone's time |
03:25.02 | Reinhilde | big issue |
03:25.05 | Reinhilde | there is no jpsip.conf |
03:25.10 | Reinhilde | only a pjsip.conf |
03:25.27 | rue_mohr | :) |
03:25.35 | rue_mohr | [TK]D-Fender, I checked, he's right |
03:25.54 | Reinhilde | [TK]D-Fender: Looks like that Ontario Court of Justice judge was right when they said that the Internet is a bipolar electronic Leviathan. |
03:27.49 | rue_mohr | I'm also like to question why the asterisk documentation is not where you should learn about asterisk |
03:28.26 | [TK]D-Fender | THAT fucking page isn't the answer |
03:28.27 | [TK]D-Fender | https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/PJSIP+Configuration+Sections+and+Relationships |
03:28.28 | [TK]D-Fender | ^ |
03:28.42 | Reinhilde | typical quebecois rage |
03:28.43 | [TK]D-Fender | "What do you mean the answer to EVERYTHING isn't on page 28?!??!" |
03:28.48 | Reinhilde | what do they put in the water there |
03:29.31 | Reinhilde | I can't tell the difference between this world and the alternate reality where they put dexamethasone in the water in Quebec. Every single French Canadian I know of is clinically insane. |
03:29.47 | Reinhilde | Not that that is germane to any of this |
03:29.56 | [TK]D-Fender | correct |
03:30.10 | [TK]D-Fender | And the sample size for what you "know" is highly dubious |
03:30.32 | [TK]D-Fender | as is my acceptance of what you even accept as "reality" |
03:31.07 | Reinhilde | as is that the laboratories have not picked up on the practically universal cushings syndrome there |
03:31.28 | Reinhilde | In any case, [TK]D-Fender, you're a troll and I have to put you on ignore |
03:31.35 | [TK]D-Fender | LOL |
03:31.42 | [TK]D-Fender | *I'm* a troll.... |
03:31.45 | Reinhilde | I recommend rue_mohr does the same, and that they additionally put me on ignore because I'm not about to help them |
03:31.46 | [TK]D-Fender | that's rich.... |
03:32.07 | Reinhilde | PJSip in Asterisk has been a complete failure and that the development team are full court press still with it indicates they've not learned |
03:32.21 | drmessano | ROFL |
03:32.22 | rue_mohr | dispite the unclear docs, I think I'm working it out |
03:32.37 | [TK]D-Fender | I just linked a very clear doc on this |
03:32.51 | [TK]D-Fender | You always insist on grabbing a page and declaing it ahs the answers |
03:33.15 | rue_mohr | I have it up, it illuded to part of the misunderstanding |
03:33.37 | rue_mohr | [---] does not, un to itself, define a section |
03:33.48 | [TK]D-Fender | it does |
03:33.53 | [TK]D-Fender | it doesn't define the TYPE |
03:33.58 | [TK]D-Fender | because that is a parameter you set |
03:34.03 | rue_mohr | the type= that follows it finishes defining it |
03:34.12 | [TK]D-Fender | [fred] |
03:34.19 | [TK]D-Fender | that defines FRED |
03:34.31 | [TK]D-Fender | what kind of thing named "fred" is a PROPERTY |
03:34.54 | [TK]D-Fender | EVERY property is part of it |
03:34.58 | rue_mohr | each "identity?" needs a endpoint, auth and aor section |
03:35.48 | rue_mohr | so [FREDWRITER] must occur 3 times |
03:35.52 | [TK]D-Fender | no |
03:35.59 | [TK]D-Fender | they can have separate NAMES <- |
03:36.08 | [TK]D-Fender | it doesn't have to be the SAME name |
03:36.23 | rue_mohr | maybe thats part of what makes the example confusing |
03:36.39 | rue_mohr | [6001]... |
03:36.40 | [TK]D-Fender | They should you full examples |
03:36.44 | rue_mohr | auth=6001 |
03:36.46 | [TK]D-Fender | FDOLLOW THE DAMN NAMES |
03:36.48 | rue_mohr | aors=6001 |
03:37.05 | [TK]D-Fender | do those each imply [6001] section for each |
03:37.12 | rue_mohr | if the names had been diffrent, this would be clearer |
03:37.18 | [TK]D-Fender | it is not REQUIRED that they have the same name |
03:37.25 | rue_mohr | I understand |
03:38.02 | [TK]D-Fender | endpoints reference these other sections |
03:38.42 | [TK]D-Fender | so does "registration", etc |
03:39.51 | rue_mohr | so the next puzzle is, who's ip address is 'contact' |
03:40.04 | [TK]D-Fender | Which> |
03:40.19 | [TK]D-Fender | you make it sound like it exists in only 1 place ... or even needs to be defined |
03:40.32 | [TK]D-Fender | all of these things depnd on how they are used |
03:40.35 | [TK]D-Fender | and why |
03:40.45 | rue_mohr | in the example, the aor section for 6001 has a contact= |
03:41.02 | rue_mohr | with an ip address that is either the * server or the phone set |
03:41.18 | [TK]D-Fender | You can FIX an AOR to 1 place |
03:41.30 | [TK]D-Fender | the same way you set host=1.2.3.4 in a sip.conf entry |
03:41.31 | [TK]D-Fender | ^ |
03:41.33 | [TK]D-Fender | SAME thing |
03:41.53 | [TK]D-Fender | And the address is for that AOR |
03:42.52 | rue_mohr | hahah! the login errors!!! |
03:42.57 | rue_mohr | SWEEET |
03:43.45 | rue_mohr | THATS worth a tea and chocolate bar break! |
03:47.06 | rue_mohr | actaully, those errors are my milestone, so maybe I'll go back to working on my DAC library.... |
03:48.01 | [TK]D-Fender | Heaven forfid you should ever finish a job so it doesn't stretch on for months.... |
03:48.37 | rue_mohr | hobbyist dude |
03:49.53 | rue_mohr | I'm really hoping that the state machine for the T1 was fixed since 1.6 |
03:49.59 | rue_mohr | I know the voicemail will be |
03:50.12 | rue_mohr | "you have fourty-one, fourty-one messages" |
03:50.18 | rue_mohr | AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH |
03:50.20 | rue_mohr | :) |
03:53.28 | *** join/#asterisk teleprompter (uid385826@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lbankhrirkmylyrd) |
05:11.53 | *** join/#asterisk lankanmon (~LKNnet@CPEb4fbe4e331bd-CM64777d632380.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
05:59.46 | *** join/#asterisk gerhard7 (~gerhard7@ip5657ee30.direct-adsl.nl) |
06:39.06 | *** join/#asterisk tomaluca95 (~quassel@kde/developer/tomaluca) |
06:39.59 | *** join/#asterisk miralin (~Thunderbi@178.34.151.251) |
07:37.57 | *** join/#asterisk miralin1 (~Thunderbi@host-46-45-217-207.stavropol.ru) |
07:47.26 | *** join/#asterisk jkroon (~jkroon@165.16.204.110) |
07:48.18 | *** join/#asterisk miralin (~Thunderbi@178.34.151.251) |
08:04.48 | *** join/#asterisk koss (koss@koss.downlink.org) |
10:22.14 | *** join/#asterisk Helenah (~s98259@unaffiliated/iveeee) |
11:48.03 | *** join/#asterisk ghostlines (~ghostline@c-73-89-208-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
11:55.58 | *** join/#asterisk pvoigt (~Linux@unaffiliated/pvoigt) |
13:07.40 | *** join/#asterisk tomaluca95 (~quassel@kde/developer/tomaluca) |
13:56.37 | *** join/#asterisk JohnWigley (uid264251@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ttwwkcsxksstpbdz) |
14:00.12 | *** join/#asterisk tomaluca95 (~quassel@kde/developer/tomaluca) |
14:05.55 | *** join/#asterisk gerhard7 (~gerhard7@ip5657ee30.direct-adsl.nl) |
15:45.56 | *** join/#asterisk javi404 (~quassel@unaffiliated/javi404) |
15:50.15 | *** join/#asterisk javi404 (~quassel@unaffiliated/javi404) |
16:42.38 | *** join/#asterisk [TK]D-Fender (~joe@64.235.216.2) |
17:46.27 | *** join/#asterisk miralin1 (~Thunderbi@178.34.151.251) |
19:01.22 | *** join/#asterisk miralin1 (~Thunderbi@host-46-45-217-207.stavropol.ru) |
19:03.10 | *** join/#asterisk ghostlines (~ghostline@c-73-89-208-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
19:08.09 | *** join/#asterisk dacod (~dacod@2804:7f5:f380:901d::1) |
20:47.45 | *** join/#asterisk ghostlines (~ghostline@c-73-89-208-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
21:07.16 | *** join/#asterisk javi404 (~quassel@unaffiliated/javi404) |
21:19.05 | *** join/#asterisk [TK]D-Fender (~joe@64.235.216.2) |
21:29.22 | *** join/#asterisk broccolistem (~anon@2607:f2c0:937e:5500:69c6:9248:944:22b) |
21:33.40 | *** join/#asterisk broccolistem (~anon@2607:f2c0:937e:5500:69c6:9248:944:22b) |
22:01.32 | *** join/#asterisk Helenah (~s98259@unaffiliated/iveeee) |
22:22.06 | *** join/#asterisk miralin1 (~Thunderbi@host-46-45-217-207.stavropol.ru) |
22:49.28 | *** join/#asterisk tehgooch (tehgooch@unaffiliated/tehgooch) |
23:50.07 | *** join/#asterisk zerosignum (~zerosignu@CPE64777d67e853-CM64777d67e850.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |