| 00:53.48 | *** join/##leaguesunited Shuist (~Shuist@ppp203-122-213-220.static.internode.on.net) |
| 02:19.56 | Zehra | currently as of now |
| 02:20.40 | Zehra | LU has not dealt with a single ban and unban |
| 02:21.30 | Zehra | now there is the chance |
| 02:22.10 | allejo | yea, I think it's about time we unban Janis: http://leaguesunited.org/bans/151 |
| 02:22.30 | Zehra | yup |
| 02:23.15 | Zehra | correct me if i am wrong |
| 02:23.23 | Zehra | but with bans and unbans |
| 02:23.44 | Zehra | the council and admins are involved in the decisions |
| 02:23.59 | Zehra | cops are not included in discussions |
| 02:24.31 | Zehra | and exactly how much of a consensus is needed for any sort of action to occur |
| 02:25.10 | allejo | not sure. i kinda just flip a coin to decide whether to unban or not |
| 02:25.26 | allejo | heads or tails |
| 02:25.31 | Zehra | there is seven official members of council |
| 02:25.38 | Zehra | thus seven official votes |
| 02:26.29 | Zehra | does an admins vote equal a council members vote? |
| 02:28.10 | the_map | The Council of Elrond must decide. |
| 02:28.36 | Zehra | and what is the percentage required for consensus to be reached? |
| 02:32.25 | Zehra | i also will disclose conflict of interest and bias which may effect my wording |
| 02:32.51 | Zehra | i currently do not match in LU and am officially banned |
| 02:33.27 | Zehra | this may effect judgement and wording |
| 02:33.35 | Zehra | and replies |
| 02:34.39 | Zehra | if it is required to keep this information hidden from the general public |
| 02:34.44 | Zehra | i understand |
| 02:35.03 | Zehra | but i will ask this |
| 02:35.31 | Zehra | has the decision making process been completely decided? |
| 02:35.58 | Zehra | and is everything based on consensus? |
| 02:47.49 | blast007 | based on a random number generator: https://www.xkcd.com/221/ |
| 02:49.07 | Zehra | lol :D |
| 18:54.28 | *** join/##leaguesunited Zehra (~Zehra@unaffiliated/zehra) |
| 20:18.57 | Zehra | suggestion for LU site improvement |
| 20:19.26 | Zehra | this page could list the map which is currently hosted on what port |
| 20:19.31 | Zehra | http://leaguesunited.org/servers |
| 20:19.53 | Zehra | also all connections could be placed in HTTPS |
| 20:27.19 | blast007 | was already gonna look into HTTPS when I move to new servers |
| 20:28.33 | blast007 | though actually now that I think about it, I won't be able to with my load balancers, unless I drop XP support for BZFlag. |
| 20:34.00 | Zehra | about how many players use XP? |
| 20:34.05 | blast007 | Or I'd need to switch to a multi-domain certificate instead of a wildcard certificate. |
| 20:35.07 | blast007 | Hard to say. We don't track clients by OS version. And I currently only have OS version level analytics on the main bzflag.org homepage. |
| 20:35.38 | Zehra | nice |
| 20:36.22 | Zehra | i think most of those connections might be from public computers or something |
| 20:37.25 | blast007 | based on some of the hardware people still use, I'd think there are a number of players that still use XP |
| 20:38.49 | blast007 | unless it becomes too big of a burden, the soonest I'd want to drop XP support is 2.6 |
| 20:39.23 | Zehra | i'm thinking it should have been dropped in like 2.4.8 or so |
| 20:40.07 | Zehra | since support for it died in 2014 |
| 20:41.04 | Zehra | and from what i've read |
| 20:41.21 | Zehra | it's basically zero-day forever for XP |
| 20:45.10 | Zehra | so like shouldn't the support be dropped in next release or so |
| 20:45.41 | blast007 | we've tended to support the previous 'unsupported' release of both Windows and OS X |
| 20:46.52 | blast007 | we support OS X 10.7+, and 10.9 and below are unsupported by Apple |
| 20:47.05 | blast007 | why can't we still support XP? |
| 20:47.49 | Zehra | like maybe on security grounds? |
| 20:48.29 | blast007 | how does our game cause security problems for people running XP? |
| 20:49.10 | Zehra | i'm thinking that since XP remains at risk |
| 20:49.24 | Zehra | like wouldn't it effect the game? |
| 20:49.31 | blast007 | how? |
| 20:50.21 | Zehra | like the passwords being at risk |
| 20:51.15 | blast007 | they're still transmitted over HTTPS |
| 20:51.26 | Zehra | ah ok |
| 20:52.42 | Zehra | the risk i was think of was that the passwords were being transmitted over HTTP or something |
| 20:52.56 | Zehra | thinking* |
| 20:53.51 | blast007 | XP's build-in HTTPS stack doesn't handle SNI, though, which means you have to use a single certificate per IP address. If we supported only Vista+ or switched to OpenSSL/similar, we could use SNI, which means that the client would send the requested hostname to the web server, which lets the web server pick the right certificate. |
| 20:54.22 | Zehra | ah ok |
| 20:54.54 | Zehra | if i understand this correctly |
| 20:55.15 | Zehra | it's not limited by IP if support is dropped |
| 20:55.39 | Zehra | so everything could basically be linked in one place |
| 20:56.01 | Zehra | which is a domain |
| 20:56.44 | Zehra | and afterwords picks the correct certificate for the client |
| 20:57.03 | blast007 | without SNI, an IP can only have a single certificate (which can be a wildcard or mult-domain certificate). with SNI, you can have a single certificate for each domain, or a mix of single, multi, and wildcard, and part of the initial handshake before encryption starts includes the requested hostname, so the server can use the right certificate. |
| 20:57.12 | blast007 | multi-domain* |
| 20:57.28 | blast007 | so currently I just have a wildcard certificate for *.bzflag.org |
| 20:58.23 | Zehra | now i think i understand |
| 20:58.55 | Zehra | the wildcard certificate covers the wiki, forums, list and everything on bzflag.org |
| 20:59.13 | Zehra | now if support was dropped on XP.. |
| 20:59.39 | Zehra | this means you can both have it on leaguesunited.org and bzflag.org |
| 21:00.19 | Zehra | and the server sends the correct certificate based on what was requested |
| 21:01.18 | Zehra | and this makes it simpler to keep everything in order |
| 21:01.42 | blast007 | dropping XP support is one of three ways (without getting more IPs). The other two would be buying a multi-domain certificate that covers every hostname we'd want to use, or switching to a better SSL library on Windows (like OpenSSL, LibreSSL, NSS, etc). |
| 21:04.42 | Zehra | this leads to thinking if the XP player base is worth the work and effort for keeping support for it |
| 21:05.38 | Zehra | and there's no way to actually know the true number of players |
| 21:05.54 | Zehra | since it's based on visits on the bzflag.org page |
| 21:06.07 | Zehra | and not auth |
| 21:06.14 | Zehra | or list |
| 21:06.34 | blast007 | it takes no effort right now |
| 21:07.09 | blast007 | it would only take effort if we want to support HTTPS on the main homepage (since I'd need HTTPS for my analytics too), or for other domains |
| 21:07.21 | blast007 | and technically I could just get extra IPs for the other stuff |
| 21:07.34 | blast007 | I'd just rather not right now |
| 21:08.44 | Zehra | probably everything will fall into place nicely |
| 21:09.06 | Zehra | with updates to bzflag and leaguesunited.org |
| 21:09.30 | Zehra | so probably when this happens HTTPS becomes default :) |
| 21:56.27 | *** join/##leaguesunited quantumdot (~quantum@unaffiliated/quantumdot) |
| 22:02.59 | quantumdot | hi the_map, it's been a ok day up to now |
| 22:03.10 | quantumdot | oops |
| 22:03.14 | Zehra | huh? |
| 22:03.17 | Zehra | :P |
| 22:11.39 | kierra | :) quantumdot |
| 22:15.17 | the_map | wrong person? |
| 22:15.59 | Zehra | looks at the random comments made |
| 22:32.23 | quantumdot | the_map nvm first thing I saw when I joined here was you talking to me, it seems to be from an old log |
| 22:32.42 | the_map | oh |
| 22:32.44 | the_map | lol |
| 23:03.44 | *** join/##leaguesunited Zehra_ (~Zehra@unaffiliated/zehra) |
| 23:20.16 | kierra | blast007: blasticator |